By | June 13, 2008

Wow..well there ya go. Looks like a No.

Well done to the No campaigners, they were good. They had great posters and a consistent message. The Yes was continually on the defence and had to explain why the No’s were wrong. They never gave a positive vision of Europe.

Now, I can just see the Irish Times tomorrow, blaming Enda Kenny for the whole thing.

Let’s just get it straight.

Fianna Fail spent 6 weeks saying goodbye to Bertie Ahern and two weeks getting pissed to welcome in Brian Cowen. When the hangover passed they suddenly remembered there was a referendum going on and Declan Ganley was a household name. (Though I still exclude Dick Roche from this). Waking up on the last weekend before polling day wasn’t enough. Meanwhile Enda Kenny had worn himself out going up to and down the country to public meetings while Cowen was singing drunken ballads in Clara.

Enda, take pleasure in the fact that you are not Taoiseach. Rent a house in France or Italy and take six weeks off. I know this is bad for the country, but there’s nothing you can do about it. Relax and come back in September refreshed and ready to take on Cowen in the Dail. We’ve already seen how easily he loses it. So it’ll be great fun.

62 thoughts on “Woah….

  1. Andrew Lawlor

    Crewser, I am as much a democrat as you are. I accept the result of the referendum but that does not preclude me from being disappointed by that result. Neither does it preclude me from presenting my own analysis of why that result occured. There can be no doubt that a significant proportion of the electorate simply did not understand the treaty or cast their vote on a completely false understanding of the treaty. It is clear that a good many voters believed that a yes vote would lead to abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, conscription to a European army, the admittance of Turkey to the union. Most voters I spoke to had no understanding of hoe the new qualified majority voting would work.

    You may call it patronising but to me it is quite obvious that most people just could not be bothered to inform themselves and simoly accepted what they were told. That is not a sophisticated electorate by any measure.

    Also, as for Peter’s contention that there is some kind of establishment bogey man out there trying to trick us – well let’s just say that this is really not borne out by thirty five years of experience within the union. The Europeans would seem to be light years ahead of Ireland when it comes to the provision of public services etc. Remenber ‘closer to Boston than Berlin,’ anyone?

    Still, if you make people afraid you can make them believe anything. Weapons of mass destruction, Britain can be attacked wiyhin 45 minutes. Evil Europeon establishment wants to force us to adopt abortion. Classic.

    There will be another vote. Of that I am certain. It may be unpalatable but it will happen.

  2. B

    Sure Andrew! If we “vote the wrong way” we get a re-vote. Sounds democratic to me.

  3. mike

    I voted NO to changing our Irish Constitution. (That’s acually what we voted on) Had we voted yes this time, it would have been the last time we would ever get the oportunity to vote on our own destiny. A YES vote would have ceeded decision making on such future issues to the European Non-Elected Politicians. In Ireland we have already “lost” our local councils. They have been replaced by non-elected County Managers who have ultimate say on all local issues. We still elect local councillors but they are completely impotent, well paid, stooges. NOW we are being asked to do the same at National and EU level. We can not allow un-elected, un-known politicians decide on our fate. We are pro-European but we are foremost Pro-democracy and there is no disgrace in standing up for National self determination. Leaders of Germany, France, U.K. and other European countries are now trying to belittle our DEMOCRATIC deciscion and railroad the treaty through at all costs. One politician in Germany referring to us as a Minority of a Minority of a Minority. What does this comment say about what kind of “influence” Ireland will have in the new EU Superstate? DOES EUROPE REALLY WANT TO BE RULED BY THESE TYPE OF INDIVIDUALS who will be able to do so with impunity and with no popular mandate ? The rest of Europes citizens need to support the Irish peoples decision.You dont need a referendum to voice your popular disapproval. The Irish “Government” won’t be supporting the Irish “people” : they are firmly entrenched in the EU politicians bed. Comfortable for an elite few !
    We in Ireland have had a say on all treaties which required an amendment to our constitution.
    The people of Ireland have made good and important decisions by referendum in the past, not least, agreeing to changes in the constitution which removed Irelands claim on Northern Ireland which paved the way for the historic and internationally important “Peace Process” in N. Ireland. We are an educated people and we are very much more aware of what happens around Europe than most other Europeans are aware of what happens in Ireland. If we are presented with a logical and well defined argument we will embrace it. If however, we are presented with a re-hacked, previously defeated treaty/constitution, with no reason to vote yes other than to “do as the politicians say”, then thats not good enough.
    Just because we are already part of an EU system that dictates to us, does not mean that when we are given a rare opportunity of democratic input we should endorse bad after bad and make an irresponsible change to our constitution to placate the EU “large and elite”.

  4. The Crewser

    Thing is B its not possible to have a further referendum on the Lisbon treaty without amendments being made. It was the same with the Nice equivalent some years ago. The Irish people say they want a better deal than what was put on the table. I say fair play to them. Andrew may not be pleased but thats tough because a better deal we will have. Some Nations may accept whatever is thrown at them but not the Irish.

  5. Andrew Lawlor

    Don’t shoot the messanger. I am merely pointing out the obvious. We will have a re-vote on Lisbon. Whether that is right is extremely debatable, but it will happen. I voted yes last Thursday so it is obvious that I think the country made the wrong decision. I am a democrat and I can differ poitically without recourse to anything more serious than a robust debate and perhaps a strong rebuke – unlike some on the NO side in this campaign. When we voted for Nice I voted yes the first time. I thought the second vote was wrong and was a slap in the face for democracy and I voted No second time round. If a majority of the Irish nation wants to move away from the centre of European affairs then that is their democratic will. It was, I think, a very misinformed decision, but it is the decision we have. Those whom we elect to govern us can not envisage a future where Ireland is excluded from the decision making at the heart of Europe and so they will find a way to put this back to the people. I may well vote NO the second time around, or I may decide that the issues are too serious to register a protest.

    Lisbon II. Coming your way early next year.

  6. B

    I think the issues IN the treaty that were never discussed are too important to vote YES to.

    The decision may be misinformed but having the Bertie show stealing the limelight that should have been devoted to gettiing the treaty thrashed out was a disgrace.

    We went from the longest goodbye and hello in the history of politics into crap about “winning it at the races” into a treaty. Is it any wonder the electorate was pissed off?

    Also handing over power to Brussels is no glib matter. If they retaliate it is probably time to think about leaving the EU. If they can’t handle democracy we should make our excuses and leave. We might even be better off if we had control over our own economy again.

    I never thought I would hear myself say this.

  7. betty

    I now think that NO might in the long run be a good result. The establishment needs a reality check now and again and a permanent ruling elite forget that they are the sevants of the people , not their masters. They forget the common good and see their only function as perpetuating themselves, imagine proposing an unelected head of Europe, I fully realise the 6 months presidency is not realistic –it is only used as a glory trip anyway . Lisbon should have been about dignity for everyone , not a “better deal ” for whoever held the most aces.

  8. Electron

    Betty, I agree, the politicians need to come down to earth – this European project has projected a lot of them into such a big picture that they’ve lost touch with reality. Mr. Cowen with his loyalty to party above loyalty to country and honesty is a great example of disconnection from reality. His salary comes from all the taxpayers and not from FF supporters alone.

  9. Sean

    So we made the “wrong” decision! Maybe we made the wrong decision at last year’s General Election? Will we get a re-run?
    The people voted no because they didn’t like the speed at which the EU is proceeding. The Lisbon treaty is dead. The “Yes” camp should stop fooling themselves by believing that the people were influenced by abortion, conscription or prostitution issues. We are not that stupid.
    Brian Cowen should tell his EU colleagues that the Irish people will not stand for this rehash of the EU Constitution, rejected by the French and Dutch, and demand better. We are a sovereign, pro-Europe nation and will not tolerate being lectured on how to think. Our Government now has a strong mandate from the people. Let’s drop the cap-in-hand, apologetic mentality and stand up for ourselves in Europe. Let them stop whinging and go out and tell the Brussels crowd that they are totally disconnected from the majority of their citizens and that they must start listening before some of the other 26 get an attack of democracy and begin asking their citizens how they feel about the new Super-State.

  10. Pingback: Sarah Carey takes a swipe at The Sunday Times over Lisbon - Page 26 - Politics.ie

  11. Darren J. Prior

    I didn’t paste that link up Sarah but as you may know on a hell of a lot of topics on that site negativity is more common than positivity and it’s impossible to win or get the last word. Threads on Lisbon are definitely included, of course. Sometimes you just have to put your hands up. You will be getting increasingly used to it now that you are working in a mainstream daily and not in the News Corporations Sunday Times.

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