Ahern speech

By | April 30, 2008

Look, it’s terribly nice. He had a great suit. It’s a good swansong and very significant for Irish relations with the US.

BUT IT’S NOT HISTORIC.

All bloody day, historic this historic that.

It would be historic if he was the first but given that all three previous FG Taoisigh have addressed the joint houses too (Bruton, Garret and Cosgrave) and that WT, Dev and Sean T O’Ceallaigh also addressed either the joint houses or the Senate, then it’s NOT historic.

Most overused word EVER.

Bit heavy on the make-up. But jeez, Ted Kennedy coulda used some.

90 thoughts on “Ahern speech

  1. Andrew Lawlor

    Yes, Bertie’s contribution to the peace process was immense and he will be rightly remembered for it. However, when all the chips have fallen down at the tribunal he will also be exposed as a corrupt, compromised politician who prostituted his office for personal enrichment.

    History will also record other issues not up for scrutiny in Dublin Castle, such as the the purchase by the state of the Battle of the Boyne site from which personal friends of Ahern made massive money. History will also record his blatant cronyism – ‘I didn’t appoint them because they gave me money, I appointed them because they were my friends.’

    Only a dyed in the wool party hack or a bought and paid for pretend journalist could seperate the two sides of Bertie. He is not simply a flawed individual, he is deeply, deeply flawed and his legacy will forever be compromised by that pedigree.

    (Now, before you say it, Crewser, we know about Anne Devitt!!)

  2. The Crewser

    Yes Andrew we do and we note with interest the double standards which you are happy to accept from your leader. You managed to find a form of words (which was somewhat better than Tom Cosgrave and Sarah) to implicate yet exonerate Enda from any involvement in the Devitt admission that she was “on the take” in her own constituency. You have attempted to besmirch somebody who has given everything for this country. Someone who is in no way flawed or of dubious pedigree. Bertie Ahern was never corrupt as you state (you would be advised to watch your language here Andrew and perhaps a withdrawal of that comment would be in order) You would be better employed advising your own leader Enda Kenny to operate to the same ethical standards as he demanded of others.

  3. Enf

    Crewser. You are deluded and I refuse to engage with your crap any longer.

  4. Gordon

    I think we can all agree with Crewser that Bartholomew is history – he’s gone.

    When sanity returns his legacy will prove to be fr more modest that the FF spin machine would have us believe. The North is at peace, but the deepy segregated society there is sowing the seeds of future conflict. Social partnership delivered a short term peace to industrial relations, dividing the spoils of the Celtic Tiger between employeres and the more privileged employees -excluding large sections of Irish society. It remains to be seen how long this cosy arrangement will survive in an economic downturn.

    Ahern’s major legacy,and a potential time bomb, is his continuing Haughey’s policy of creating a new Ascendancy, not Protestant but FF. In addition to a small elite, mega-rich, contributing little (especially by way of taxes), he has abdicated to a large measure the Government’s responsibility, handing over real power and influence to non-elected organisations run largely by his cronies.

    Gordon

    PS Al that money for make-up and so little for his tailor!

  5. Andrew Lawlor

    In the early nineties, when he was minister for finance, Bertie Ahern received very significant amounts of cash from a variety wealthy influential individuals. Had Bertie been a window cleaner at the Arch-bishop’s palace it is not likely that these people would have felt any desire to enrich Bertie to the tune of over six times his ministerial salary in a two year period. Suerly even you, Crewser, must question why these people would feel the need to do this. One thing I have learned in business is that you don’t suceed by giving away large amounts of money for no return. He received this money because he was a government minister, because he was in a position of power and influence, because certain people believed, rightly or wrongly, that giving large amounts of money to Bertie could benefit them in some way. Simply by accepting this money Ahern prostituted his office. It is not neccessary for him to have done any favours or made any corrupt political decisions in return for this money. The taking of the money, in itself was, in my view, corrupt. Is not unacceptable to a lover of democracy like yourself?

  6. The Crewser

    Thank goodness for that Enf. Now as for Andrew Lawor and Gordon Davies where shall we begin. Its tiresome to see FG people and the occasional Labourite putting forward their holier than thou views in respect of Fianna Fail politicians while they are harbouring their own dirty little secrets and protecting their leader Enda. Andrew can crow all he likes about Bertie Ahern but that will not detract one whit from his greatness. It will only serve to enhance it. Once again Andrew had an opportunity to deal with Enda Kennys failure to deal with the Devitt affair ( Enda is happy to leave it to the Mahon Tribunal) But its not going to go away Andrew. By the way I notice you have failed to withdraw your allegation that Bertie Ahern was corrupt. You are quite good at finding a form of words to protect Enda, I feel sure you will be able to do likewise in respect of your unfounded allegation of corruption.

  7. Andrew Lawlor

    Crewser, I have dealt numerous times with the Anne Devitt affair. I have said that she has quetions to answer. It is implausable for her to deny a conflict of interests when she was engaged on both sides of the deal involving Joe Moran and the Northern Area Health Board. My opinion is that Enda Kenny should seek to have Ms. Devitt removed from the party as was done to Michael Lowry some years ago.

    Regarding Bertie Ahern. My earlier comment was not an allegation, it was an opinion. It is my consisered opinion that if someone who holds public office, be that ministerial office or judicial office or membership of county councils etc, is in reciept of gifts, financial or otherwise, from third parties, the acceptance of these gifts is a corrupt act. The payment of large sums of cash to public representatives by wealthy, influential business people can only leave those in public office beholden or percieved to be beholden in some way to the donor. One does not need a degree in philosophy to know that accepting large amounts of money from strangers when in high public office is deeply unethical can only be seen as corrupt. That is my opinion and I believe that it is an opinion held by the vast majority of right-thinking people.

  8. The Crewser

    Andrew if I were you I would think carefully before offering such opinions. It is a serious matter regardless of whether it is an opinion on an allegation. I have put my points clearly in relation to the different stances taken by Enda Kenny when he is dealing with politicians within his own party and those outside it, regarding financial matters such as those admitted to at the Mahon Tribunal by Ms Devitt.
    The facts speak for themselves. Also your defininition of a “right thinking person” is presumably one who would share the double standards evident in Enda Kenny’s approach to these matters.
    Those adopting a holier than thou approach should ensure that their own linen is clean. Fine Gael’s is clearly not.
    Just to put the record straight there is no suggestion anywhere that Bertie Ahern is corrupt, apart from yourself.

  9. Pingback: So it’s not just me!! « sharona’s shambles

  10. Enf

    You know what the most tiresome thing is. Some spa pigeon holing people he doesn’t agree with into Political party loyalties.

    Those of who are not fascists (or wannabe fascists) don’t have a leader. The concept of personality politics is purely a fascist notion. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Marcos all fascists and all had manufactured conflicts internally that they “overcame in the name of the people”. All cultivated crony capitalism and the cult of personality. At least in practically all these cases they could get a suit that fits.

    And veiled threats re opinions as offered to Andrew there is the sprcialist subject of other “free democracies” like Singapore who sue all and sundy to keep their one party rule in power at ALL costs. Sounds like here with the FF batphone to the High Court when the lights shine into the dark corners of their “business”.

  11. Gordon

    Ahern received money from people who later were appointed to public positions in Ahern’s gift. The fact that the appointer had received money from the appointee was not made public at the time. Looks like coruption, smells by corruption…

    Gordon

  12. Enf

    I think the FF apologist conducts his “reign of terror” from work. No comments at the weekend.

  13. The Crewser

    Wrong again Enf, no surprise there then. As for Gordon, well no one takes the lefties seriously anymore. A discredited and failed philosophy.

  14. joe

    Crewser, with the change of leader, I think you need to go for some “apparachik re-education”. Your fanatical, weird devotion to Ahern could be construed as disloyalty to the new leader. These regime changes can be hard on apparachiks, and you don’t want to get caught out. Go get yourself reprogrammed fast, would be my advice.

  15. The Crewser

    No need to do that Joe. Don’t be misled by the disloyalty which occurs when FG change leader. There is normally something of a faction fight. Be ready for one soon as I do not expect Enda to contest the next General Election. By the sound of it you too (just like Gordon and Enf) are a condoner of Enda’s softly softly, wait for the Tribunal Report on Ms Devitt. A condoner of the double standards which most rank and file FG folk are happy to go along with, for the present at any rate. Perhaps you Joe are an exception. Time will tell.

  16. Enf

    Jesus H Christ on a bicycle Crewser. I am and have not, nor never will be a supporter of FG.

    Can’t you dig your bigoted little head out of Civil War politics?

  17. The Crewser

    Enf keep your hair on : I never said you were. You are turning paranoid now.
    You do not need to be a disciple of Enda’s to condone the mans double standards.Your failure to indicate otherwise would suggest you are happy with Enda’s approach in regard to Ms Devitts admission to the Mahon Tribunal. This matter has nothing to do with the Civil war as you well know. Please keep your name calling to yourself, it simply indicates a lack of breeding.

  18. Tom N

    Laughing my hole off at the moment. Decided to stay away rfom political blogs for a while…and then I read Crewser’s first comment. Give the girl her prosac!

  19. Tom N

    Good to have the Crewser in such top form. Now babysitting nephews for the day. I use the Crewser’s comments to get used to the logic of six year olds without getting frustrated.

  20. The Crewser

    Good to see that you are still only able to see through those blue tinted glasses Tom N. I suppose you see nothing wrong with the Devitt payment either. No doubt you will enlighten us.

  21. betty

    crewser has won again –he hyjacked what could have been an interesting discussion into abuse and repeating the same mantra. When I was growing up a similar line of abuse was persued—-“yous tuk the shillin off th’aul age pinsioners” to which the retort was “yous et the free beef”Crude but effective and crewser is following the same line. The facts are—health sevice deliberately run into the ground to force everyone into private health ins, primary education a disgrace and old people let die of infection so enter bread and circuses to distract the masses–again very effective.

  22. The Crewser

    Betty you are straying deliberately off the topic. Health Service was discussed elsewhere. You do not mention whether or not you are happy with Endas handling of the Devitt monies. One assumes you are otherwise you would have let us know.

  23. Enf

    Crewser why don’t you just declare your man love for Enda and leave us all in peace. It is complete bollocks to accuse betty of straying off topic when the whole topic was the historic or non historic-ness of Berties inept speech to a bunch of Americans.

    You are obsessed with Anne Devitt and the perceived light treatment of whatever she is alleged to have got. Get over it.

    The health service is central to this whole Angola like disaster. Since 1951 it has been a political football used by your masters to score points off each other.

  24. Tom N

    Crewser’s blood pressure is boiling – look at that anger! I am reminded of the song “Movin’ Out” by Billy Joel. It includes the line: “You should never argue with a crazy man!”

    For those who are new to this blog we need to inform you about the Crewser. The Crewser is in fact a Fine Gael plant. The more delusional crap she comes out with, the more people associate delusional crap with Fianna Fail. She is worth an extra few points to FG in every poll.

    Now…more important things to think about…oh yes…watching paint dry.

  25. The Crewser

    Tom N you are talking through your hat again if you believe what you say. Clearly you are so loyal to Enda you will not give us a view on the Devitt money.

  26. Enf

    I was surprised today that neither Ian Paisley nor Dear Leader Ahern mentioned the Devitt money.

    Maybe today was historic. Historic in the way that a Gay Dutchman leading a rebel army against the King of England is al Loyalist hero is historic.

    I was all on for a no holds barred re-enactment of the battle with the last man standing being the winner.

    I am so going to hell for this.

  27. The Crewser

    Stick to your planning Enf, thats my advice. I dont expect you will take it.
    As long as you keep the Devitt €20,000 on the agenda thats fine. You do not even need to say you are happy how Enda handled it. Just keep it on the agenda.

  28. The Crewser

    So you are satisfied with Enda’s approch then. I thought so. Why not become an FG supporter then. Someone has to be.

  29. Enf

    There are so many people on take I am wondering why this one is such a fixation for Crewser. Enda made a haimes of it but he makes a haimes of everything. FG on the attack is like being savaged by a dead sheep. To butcher a Denis Healy quote.

    Maybe I will pop into Fagans and see if I can get a dig out. Plenty of people there who have a record of helping a man out who has fallen on harder times.

    And if the revenue come after me I will tell them that 1. I don’t have a bank account and 2. I was going through a separation.

    If either of the above fail I will get elected and then tell the Irish public to F off out of my affairs.

    And then I will go on and tell the people to tighten their belts. Yea, reckon that will work. Way to go. Thats a plan.

  30. The Crewser

    Another nice piece of footwork by Enf. I reckon you might well be in line for honorary membership of FG at this stage despite your total disillusionment with politics. Still happy with Endas approach to Devitt it would seem. They are trying to broaden their base you know.

  31. Enf

    blah blah blah Enda

    blah blah blah FG

    blah blah blah Devvitt

  32. The Crewser

    Some of your best stuff yet Enf.

  33. The Crewser

    Yes Tom, I am well aware of what you said. The problem is that Enda’s failure to act raises serious questions about Enda’s leadership of FG, particularly because of his holier than thou attitude to politicians in other parties. Just like all the other contributors to this site you appear to have no view on this latter point.

  34. Enf

    Ok Crewser. Lets ban Fine Gael and anyone else in opposition.

    I note you are very quiet on John Gormleys position on alleged Fianna Fail corruption. What is good for the goose is good fro the gander.

  35. Tom Cosgrave

    Crewser / Senator Harris – I said there was no justification for no justification for Enda Kenny not having her expelled – do I need to say anything else?

  36. The Crewser

    Enf, its all about balance, not that such matters would bother you. Well done Tom for stating that.

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