12.06.07
Katy
I’m not sure what to do or say about this. The news was sad. She seemed like a nice girl, but she made mistakes and has paid, and her family has paid, an enormous price for them. Let’s not be too hard.
An Irish woman’s social, political and domestic commentary
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Soloist said,
December 6, 2007 at 11:29 pm
So glad coke wasn’t a fixture on the social scene when I was in my early 20s because remembering the benders.. there but for the grace of God…
Katy French seemed full of life and mischief and hugely likeable – and that’s from just seeing her on Podge and Rodge and Tubridy. Also thought she was smart and played the tabloid press instead of letting them play her.
I hope she’s at peace and my thoughts and prayers are with her family.
sang said,
December 7, 2007 at 1:13 am
Oh no……
Its so sad. The little I read of interviews with her, I found her gutsy and smart, and a bit of a contrarian.
Jeez, she’s so young.
Joe H. said,
December 7, 2007 at 11:23 am
The Irish Times this morning
Most Read Stories
1.Top model Katy French dies in Navan hospital
2. Sad fate of Irish pin-up girl
3. Model and socialite Katy French dies in hospital
4. Postmortem due on socialite Katy French
5. Gormley unveils new carbon measures
Most Emailed Stories
1. Budget 2008: main points
2. Man charged over Guinness kegs theft
3. Top model Katy French dies in Navan hospital
4. Gormley unveils new carbon measures
5. Developer drops apartment prices by EUR 100,000
thestudent said,
December 7, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I would like to point out that we don’t know what happened to her yet.
I would also like to note that I found a number of Irish Times columns over the past days in relation to her quite distasteful. They were like obituaries, and while offering vague compliments all made her out to be a pathetic figure, when in fact she used the media to her advantage in furtherance of her career. The IT should be ashamed of itself, sneering at the Sindo and tabloids but behaving worse I feel over the last few days. We do not need profiles and colour pieces while the poor lady was on her deathbed.
As for Katy, she seemed quite nice, didn’t take it all too seriously, and gave off far more warmth and personality than her colleagues.
Paul Newton said,
December 7, 2007 at 2:58 pm
“when in fact she used the media to her advantage in furtherance of her career”
Who used who?
From day one we were expected to believe that she split from your man after he “walked in” on a lingerie shoot.
She appeared somewhere in every sunday indo I ever had the poor taste to pick up in my mothers house thereafter.
If Ireland’s best selling newspaper continues to successfully transfer it’s values into Irish society then we are deeply f**ked.
I am so sad over this, for her, her friends and family… We have completely lost the run of ourselves in materialism, commercialism and instant gratification.
The Crewser said,
December 7, 2007 at 5:07 pm
I think the whole episode puts Ian O’Doherty’s (no one will tell me what I will not put into my mouth)appearance on the Late Late Show into perspective. RTE and other media organisations have a serious responsibility in respect of these matters. It is too late for Katy French but perhaps others will wise up to the seriousness of drug abuse (particularly Cocaine and Heroin) Perhaps its too late for a lot of people who are hooked. Perhaps its too late for society generally. The die may already be cast.
dermot said,
December 7, 2007 at 5:33 pm
If it turns out to be cocaine (which is what everyone is thinking) then its no different to the boy racers who wrap themselves around trees. No less sad for the family for that.
If it turns out not to be cocaine then there’ll be lots of useless navel gazing in the media and elsewhere
Dermot
Maria said,
December 7, 2007 at 5:56 pm
>They were like obituaries, and while offering vague compliments all made her out to be a pathetic figure
Could you give some examples of this. I thought the IT covered it well, not OTT like the Indo for example. As for the Mail, the less said the better.
>Who used who?
She manipulated the media and hats off to her. A lot of newspaper editors – and their organ grinders – are falling over themselves trying to create ‘celebrities’ and treating their readers as vacuous idiots (which let’s face it they must be to buy the rags) and Katy used them shamelessly to increase her profile and, more to the point, her earning potential. Game, set, and match to French. RIP.
Sarah said,
December 7, 2007 at 6:57 pm
I thought the IT stuff was respectful though seemed to be judgmental of those who judged French for the way she used her personal life to promote her chosen career.
I never saw the Ian O’Doherty thing but believe he did “I take coke, so do loads of people, what’s the problem?” type piece. If he did then he’s a fool – maybe its the truth but legitimising it is as Dermot said no different than legitimising speeding and drink driving.
That whole SINDO circle of promotional models and so-called socialites promotes a shallow existence. If that’s how they want to run their lives, fine, but stop holding them up to us as role-models and spare us the mawkishness when the inevitable happens.
Sarah said,
December 7, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Actually, one more thing..I was listening to Terry Prone on Pat Kenny this morning. Among her other comments, which were all incisive, she said she’d give the press two weeks of raking over Katy’s life..and then they’d go for the sister. It was so chilling and yet you could just see it happening. Hopefully the poor girl will be able to keep her head down and prevent them for turning her into some kind of grieving icon.
Tom N said,
December 8, 2007 at 11:39 am
Bizarrely I agree with the Crewser (first time for everything) about Ian O’Doherty’s attitude towards drugs. There are always situations where we think we know more than people who have studied something for years. O’Doherty’s attitude towards drugs mirrors that of boy racers towards speeding. Knowing that they have done it many times and get away with it, they are convinced that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. They question we should be asking is will this, or any other cocaine related death stop people using coke? The sad truth is no. Similarly no amount of roads deaths stops teenage boys racing around.
John mcDermott said,
December 8, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Theres not much chance of many of the thousands of pushers ending up in the clink either,to discourage the trade, even if the cops arrested a few of them.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has admitted that action needs to be taken to deal with the situation in which some 36,000 people are said to be evading bench warrants for their arrest. Labour party leader Eamon Gilmore said the figure of 36,000 had been obtained from the garda computer system on November 25. He added that there were 111,453 outstanding warrants in total, which was “equivalent to the population of a large five seat constituency”.
http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/massagingcrime.htm
Bart Aherns reply has to be one of the most amusing Bertieisms ever:
“Some of the cases would relate to people for whom a warrant was issued and they either forgot about it, or were sick,” Bertie said.!!
The Crewser said,
December 8, 2007 at 4:11 pm
It is a matter which requires immediate attention by all responsible individuals in this country. John McDermott as usual tries to be smart and snide as you might expect but the drug culture is now so seriously embedded into society that there is absolutely no room for such bird brained thinking. In some ways the smoking ban in public places is an example of what can be done if brave decisions are taken. It is a time for brave and imaginative action on drugs otherwise there will not be much of a future for anybody in this country. Unfortunatelty it is a worldwide problem which makes it even harder to solve but one hell of an effort will be required without any political point scoring of the type Mr McDermott is engaged in.
Dan Sullivan said,
December 8, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I think Irish media village has done itself and Ms. French a massive disservice over the last week, and the Indo devoting 13 pages today is just the coup de grace.
The angle of person X has fallen in with a bad crowd when the crowd they have fallen in with are being written about in glowing terms week in week out by the so called newspapers that are available on Sundays. If you are doing things that are considered bad then you are part of a bad crowd not some good person running with a bad crowd. I’m sure that all the people associated with someone running in the bad crowd think their friend is the good person falling in with the wrong crowd. It is the activity that is wrong not the crowd.
Some people in the media seem to think that any and all activities are lacking in consequences, you can have sex whenever you want and ignore the possibilities of disease or pregnancy. Take whatever drugs you like without any problems ever surfacing. It is all about having lives of acting as you will unencumbered by consequence.
P O'Neill said,
December 8, 2007 at 5:27 pm
And now comes the news that yesterday’s hero of the Coolmore stud, Kieren Fallon, hasn’t been setting a good example either.
Sal said,
December 8, 2007 at 5:36 pm
“The IT should be ashamed of itself, sneering at the Sindo and tabloids”
I’ve never noticed the IT sneering at the Sindo and tabloids. Doubt these publications even impinge on IT consciousness somehow.
The Katy French tabloid coverage is a joke but it’s not remotely funny.
Primal Sneeze said,
December 8, 2007 at 7:00 pm
The IT’s reporting was professional. The Indo, as you say Sarah, promotes its own “circle of promotional models and so-called socialites”. Just look at today’s edition! Why the Irish Examiner follow the Indo’s tack I will never know. Oh, and forget the Red-Tops.
If I believed in a god, I would pray to it that tomorrow’s ST doesn’t sink so low as the Indo. A paragraph will do, lads – not pages. Please! Spare us.
Gerry said,
December 8, 2007 at 7:33 pm
right so. With the detachment of distance I have been looking at this. A woman dies suddenly but quietly while staying in a friend’s house (not at a party as previously supposed) . This woman has previously confessed to have taken cocaine. Therefore she ‘died of cocaine’.
Where is this ignorant nonsense reported – on a website wall to wall with people complaining about tabloid coverage. The solution? 30 y.o arguments about rounding up the ‘pushers’. as chris rock points out these guys are don’t have to push anything. They’re just supplying demand.
The only lessons here are don’t bury your coke in the garden and then eat it. This is not the heroin problem of the 80′s taking root in entire neighbourhoods. Or even the crack problem in London. It’s some rich people acting like eejits on a weekend. What’s the problem?
Sarah said,
December 8, 2007 at 10:22 pm
hmmmmmm
well this is why I think there should be global decriminalisation. Eliminate overnight all the associated crime and you can educate people after that – like we do smoking and drinking- and restrict its use – like we do smoking and drinking – and if people still want to take it and kill themselves, then fine, you can’t legislate for stupidity.
However that will never happen, so the odd bit of enforcement by the cops wouldn’t go astray.
But you know, for me, the issue is not the drugs. It’s two things
1. How the media deal with this socialite crowd in the first place
2. How they deal with drug related deaths and how the families deal with them.
I think we’re all agreed that both the models and the papers have this vile symbiotic relationship. If they’re happy fine, but we here at GUBU shall sneer and judge all we want without regret.
I’m not buying the SINDO tomorrow. Couldn’t put up with the rubbish and hypocrisy. So far, the Doyle’s remain top of my list for having the guts to acknowledge the circumstances of Kevin’s death and use it as an opportunity to persuade others not to break the hearts of their families by indulging themselves. I’ll be waiting to see what the French’s have to say. And the rest of Katy’s circle.
Ray said,
December 9, 2007 at 9:31 am
“If it turns out to be cocaine (which is what everyone is thinking) then its no different to the boy racers who wrap themselves around trees.”
Well, no.
Boy racers and drunk drivers use the public roads. They don’t just endanger themselves, they’re a danger to everyone else on the roads. Cocaine-induced heart attacks do not have an area effect.
(Yeah, yeah, bought from drug dealers, fueling crime. So legalise it.)
Sarah said,
December 9, 2007 at 3:21 pm
oh good point.
The Crewser said,
December 9, 2007 at 3:49 pm
I see in today’s papers that Kieran Fallon the jockey who has just been cleared of race fixing at the Old Bailey now has another problem to deal with. Apparently traces of cocaine were picked up in a blood sample he gave in France some time ago. There might be a link however tenuous between this and Katy French’s death. The link is weight. In former days people who wanted to stay slim would smoke cigarettes, now it seems that is not fashionable anymore. Now cocaine does the same job but it is infinitely more damaging to the body in the short term.Partying several nights a week would result in a serious amount of weight gain. I suspect that lots of people in the “celebrity world” are turning to cocaine for a quick fix for their weight difficulties but what a high price they have to pay. Legalising the stuff would just encourage even more of this stupidity.
Niall said,
December 9, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Last time I checked, we all have a right to be stupid Crewser. Just because I think that what you’re doing is stupid isn’t a good enough reason to make that activity illegal.
The Crewser said,
December 9, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Sometimes the stupidity is of a magnitude that a society has a duty and an obligation to intercede. Contrast the attidue to suicide and apparent toleration of a somewhat slower form of it by drug abuse.
Sarah said,
December 9, 2007 at 8:27 pm
sorry Crewser, I’m a little confused. Are you saying then that society SHOULD intercede in the same that they intercede in suicide (well this is all theory of course, in practice our mental health including acute services are hopeless), but in theory we would stop a suicide…
Do you not think there is logic in decriminalisation (in theory, I know practically it will never happen)…
The Crewser said,
December 9, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Well I would be stringently opposed to the legalisation of hard drugs. If what you are suggesting or intimating is that it may be beneficial in taking the criminals out of the equation then there is some logic in the idea of course. But this would be counterbalanced by giving a signal of some sort to the vulnerable and the naieve that the use of these drugs is a really cool idea which can be pursued without any serious consequences. We already do intercede in respect of these drugs by attempting to cut off the supply lines. Something more is required I believe but the entire Health budget could now be used up in making individual intereventions, the problem is so widespread. There is a need now for an urgent plan of action and obviously experts would need to study developments in other countries. The seriousness of the matter means that no time must be wasted in formulating this strategy.
Sarah said,
December 9, 2007 at 9:38 pm
I’m with you there. See we are agreed that:
1. why waste the Health budget on numerous individual interventions
2. People do need to be educated on the dangers
3. taking the criminals out of the equation, is to use your word, logical
but how can you do this without decriminalisation? Remember, it is logical..so why not, in theory, go the extra mile?
The Crewser said,
December 9, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Without a doubt there is a case to be made for it. It would at least identify those who were in difficulty with addiction and highlight the magnitude of the problem. It could be reversed very easily if things were not improving.
Sarah said,
December 9, 2007 at 10:30 pm
At last common ground! It so nice
Isn’t it a shame that no government, anywhere in the world, will ever be able to put decriminalisation even on the agenda?
The US spends around $50 billion a year on the War on Drugs (not including proxy wars etc). IMAGINE what could be done with that money – starting with a massive education programme.
Ray said,
December 10, 2007 at 8:05 am
“giving a signal of some sort”
You’ve obviously really thought this through.
Cigarettes are legal. Drink is legal. Is society therefore “giving a signal of some sort to the vulnerable and the naieve (sic)” that these things are cool? And if so, shouldn’t we stop giving that signal, and ban cigarettes and alcohol completely? Sure, criminalisation would be ineffective, and would lead to a massive illegal trade, but we have to think of the children.
Gerry said,
December 10, 2007 at 9:44 am
So Crewser, we need a plan of some sort to do something of some unclear nature. we must study what goes on abroad. Sounds like we need a committee. Or even better a tribunal to look into this with utmost seriousness. And report back. As soon as possible.
thestudent said,
December 10, 2007 at 10:01 am
Interesting that Sal doesn’t think the biggest selling publications in the country impinge on the IT’s consciousness.
As for examples of obituary type articles – Roisin Ingle for one, followed by Ann Marie Hourihane.
If people want to persist in the notion that the IT is above the fray of the rest, they are wrong. It’s just like the Indo/Sindo, just haughty.
Paul Newton said,
December 10, 2007 at 11:49 am
interesting that Sarah mentions the “war on drugs” in the USA.
This has worked so well that we should definately be looking to replicate the model here, the have succeeded in putting millions in jail and still have an escalating drug problem, this idea that we can police or control drug use is simply political rhetoric and gets votes cos we are all afraid of the big bad wolf.
What we need here is responsibility, balance and education, those who think there are easy answers, i.e the “hang em high” brigade and the decriminalise “nobody tells me what to put in my mouth” brigade are both hopelessly out of touch with reality.
This reminds me of the former justice ministers “war on organised crime”, it was extremely politically popular and we can all see how the gun culture of organised gangs has improved since then, we had the same reaction after Veronica Guerin was killed and now we have to listen to the same crap all over again about this… face it lads..trying to outgun this culture does not work.. for them life is very very cheap and there’s a queue of new ones just waiting to step up to the plate.
We need to accept that there will always be stupidity, drugs in society, people who speed recklessly, suicide, what we have to do is educate people to see these behaviours for what they are and not to celebrate them.
There is no question in my mind that the use of drugs particularly cocaine has been glamourised by association by most sections of the media in this country over the course of this tiger economy.
We need a degree of responsibility, things that have to stop is this junk of giving drug dealers and criminals celebrity nicknames, constant glamourising of the lifestyles (including insinuations of drug taking) of a select group of “socialites” who have more money than sense and the incessant barrage of mega success “who’s got the biggest micky” coverage of weddings, funerals and 21st parties (with P Diddy flown in for €250,000).
What needs to start is an honest education programme, one that says drugs provide an amazing experience (that’s why people take them) but they can fuck up your complete life. Actually maybe we need a more complete education programme
Drugs are good, but can fuck up your whole life.
Drink is good, but can fuck up your whole life.
Money is good, but can fuck up your whole life.
I’m all ranted out now…. we live in a lowest common denominator society.
The Crewser said,
December 10, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Gerry, get a life
Rob Hickey said,
December 10, 2007 at 4:56 pm
I read on breakingnews.ie that the Taoiseach’s Aide de Comp was present at Ms French’s funeral today. Did he make the trip to Waterford last week?
Luke said,
December 10, 2007 at 5:08 pm
The goverment could always start an advertising campaign telling people that coke will shrivel your cock, empty your wallet and replace your real friends with a bunch of dead-eyed zombies who couldnt care less about anything other than where the next line is coming from.
You can’t stop people taking drugs but you might able to influence their thinking about it somewhat. People at the moment think that cocaine is hedonism at its finest and relatively harmless. The truth is that its a highly addictive, psychological pernicious substance that causes a lot of problems before you get to the dropping dead stage. Might it be worth telling people that?
PS Crewser, grow up.
The Crewser said,
December 10, 2007 at 7:43 pm
You are still able to manage the odd gutter-snipe comment, Luke. There is still a scintilla of sense in some of your thoughts, though.
John mcDermott said,
December 10, 2007 at 10:20 pm
The crewser says I am “Political point scoring”
Call it what you will , the fact is the demand for drugs-like prostitution-is pretty much outside the control of Gardai or government.Where there is money and demand the free market will fill the vacuum. We dont have spaces in our prisons at present for serious criminals, (a fact which receives little publicity, although Eamon Gilmore has recently exploited) let alone the myriad of drug pushers that form part of the labrynthine network of this massively profitable billion euro industry.
When civil disobedience (read “drug demand”) reaches current levels the law enforcement system implodes. We will not be told these hard truths however (like the property crash) until ordinary people see the deaths of many more “personalities”
Its out of control and Ahern has his face in the sand-as usual.the drug crisis is out of control.Its too big for a waffler.This is a national emergency. Nothing changes under a Fianna Fail government-except for the worst. For Gods sake when will people learn.
Niall said,
December 10, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Can we please stop using the phrase “drug pushers?”
The Crewser said,
December 10, 2007 at 11:43 pm
It is difficult to take someone like John McDermott seriously. It is best to dismiss him as an irrelevancy. He is someone who obviously does not accept the democratic process. Another anarchist perhaps.
V said,
December 10, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Good point Niall! This reactionary rubbish is unbelievable. I don’t know where to start so I won’t.
V said,
December 10, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Crewser, what is an Anarchist?
Ray said,
December 11, 2007 at 8:13 am
Anyone to the left of Fianna Fail, apparently.
How on earth is cocaine use a ‘national emergency’? How many people have died from using cocaine? Throw in all the gang-related deaths, and you’re still nowhere near emergency levels. Get a grip.
Rob Hickey said,
December 11, 2007 at 9:46 am
But what was the aide de campe (or however you spell it) doing there?
What is so significant that the Taoiseach’s representative has to be there? The media…?
Justin said,
December 11, 2007 at 10:40 am
Gerry, I doubt Crewser would be in favour of any more tribunals
Justin said,
December 11, 2007 at 10:45 am
BTW, the talking heads have been going absolutely overboard with talk of the scale of the coke problem.
I keep hearing that coke consumption is “commonplace at middle-class dinner parties these days”. In that case, I’ve been going to the wrong parties… also, wouldn’t it ruin the appetite? Is that not counter-productive at a dinner party?
Clearly the dinner party organisers have not thought this through.
Graham said,
December 11, 2007 at 11:13 am
When people don’t understand something, but are terrified of it nonetheless, this kind of hype ensues. We’ve seen it before regarding paedophiles and heroin and now it’s the turn of cocaine.
Yes, it is prevalent, at least from what I’ve seen in Dublin and it is high risk and bad for your health. I don’t think anyone takes cocaine without knowing that there is risk involved, both from an addiction and a health perspective. But honestly, count how many deaths are directly and indirectly related to cocaine use and then do the same for alcohol and you’ll where the ‘national emergency’ lies.I’m not bringing this up to start an ‘alcohol is more dangerous’ type of debate. I just think a little perspective on the realities is important. Drug abuse is a serious problem in Ireland and will lead to many many more deaths, but it’s not a new problem and there is not going to be some magic fix (excuse the pun).
tom said,
December 11, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I think some of the media frenzy over recent events is highly irresponsible.
in the space of two weeks three people are dead and two more are critically ill after taking cocaine. this is not normal. pretending that ‘cocaine’ on its own is the cause of these deaths contradicts all the empirical evidence and is both stupid and dangerous.
the government should treat drug users like adults and let them know that obviously there’s some dodgy coke around so they need to be careful.
The Crewser said,
December 11, 2007 at 2:34 pm
V there is a good online dictionary. It will certainly be there.
Fredricko said,
December 11, 2007 at 2:58 pm
When is someone going to deal with THE central player in Katie making her tragically wrong choices. A formerly fat ‘journalist’ are people scared to approch this iusse?
The Crewser said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:01 pm
This is how Ray. There will hardly be a ICU place in Ireland available for genuine health emergencies as they will be full of cocaine abusers. Also the really frightening thing is that people are getting into their cars, stoned out of their minds, and putting other peoples lives at risk as well as their own. And no breathalyser available to the Gardai will pick up this stuff. The implications are obvious I would have thought.
Sarah said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Fredericko – I hope they will. Superintendent Devine is no wallflower and from what I hear is quite determined to pursue the issue. But let’s just be careful on the blog. Newspapers can afford libel suits..I can’t
Graham said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Crewser, there are oral fluid drug testing kits available and they provide accurate, fast results on a range of intoxicants, from THC, Cocaine, opiates etc. As for your assertion that there won’t be an ‘ICU place in Ireland available for genuine health emergencies’, well thats just ridiculous. Where are your statistics to back up this claim? The last couple of weeks have seen a number of critically ill (and worse) people as a result of cocaine use, but cocaine use has not suddenly escalated in the last few weeks. As Tom pointed out, there’s obviously some dodgy coke about that is responsible.
V said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Crewser,
I know what it means. I wanted to know what the word means to YOU, seeing as it is a term as overused and misused as ‘Stalinist’ and ‘Fascist’. But I got the answer from Ray already..
Tomaltach said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:50 pm
The real issue here is to get a more balanced handle on the scale of the damage caused by cocaine to society. We know how can affects individual users. But what percentage of users live unscathed perfectly normal lives? The prime time show was telling us what we know already – that it is used widely by all classed. But why not compare it’s social affects say with alcohol. What percentage of users of alcohol have problems in their personal life or get involved in violence or whatever. I think it’s time that each drug is ranked according to societal measures – including alcohol. Also – the legalisation route should be explored, but very carefully. Some commenters above would legalise it in the morning without considering how that might affect usage patterns. And certain very limited scenarios where hard drugs have been partially legalised can be raised but the truth is, we just don’t know how legalisation of cocaine would affect us as a society. It is almost certain that usage would spike, making it all the more important to really understand the effects. You might say – we know the effects. Do we? We are only beginning to accept and understand the effects of alcohol which has been around for all time.
I thought prime time made much of the 92% stat – repeated over and over. All this says is that usage is widespread geographically and across classes but it gives no indication of say, what percentage of pub goers are taking the drug.
The Crewser said,
December 11, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Dodgy coke Graham. Pull the other one. None of it is dispensed across a Pharmacy counter. And Ray everyone is an expert these days.
V said,
December 11, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Crewser, I don’t think you have much first hand knowledge of this one so the more stupid remarks you make the more you stupid you look. I am not in Ireland so I don’t have all the facts but what it looks like is a batch of relatively pure coke coming into a country where the usuall product is adulterated 5 or 6 times with speed and x and all sorts of crap and where normal gov policy forces everyone to be their own ‘dispensing chemist’. It happens all the time with Heroin.
The Crewser said,
December 11, 2007 at 4:17 pm
As I said V everyone is an expert nowadays. So the quality control is not as good as it should be.
Sarah said,
December 11, 2007 at 5:11 pm
oh btw, the government were represented at the Doyle and Grey funerals.
Ray said,
December 11, 2007 at 6:27 pm
“There will hardly be a ICU place in Ireland available for genuine health emergencies as they will be full of cocaine abusers.”
What will the cocaine abusers be in the ICU for, exactly, Crewser?
If cocaine is intrinsically dangerous, and huge numbers of people are doing it all the time, people should be dropping dead all the time. They aren’t.
The Crewser said,
December 11, 2007 at 7:35 pm
That does not even require the dignity of an answer. Many places are taken up as we speak. Its no surprise to encounter a few apologists for the drugs culture and a few quality control hiccups. Perhaps a summit meeting of all the dealers in misery and death should be called to arrange for tighter controls on the quality.
Ray said,
December 12, 2007 at 8:28 am
Maybe you should remind yourself of this thread, Crewser, before you start mouthing platitudes about another subject of which you know nothing.
Sarah said,
December 12, 2007 at 9:39 am
hmmmm some good points here. V might be right about the pure coke. And it is a bit ridiculous that with 500 people a year killing themselves that half a dozen coke deaths have seen us screeching about how SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.
Ray said,
December 12, 2007 at 10:17 am
Pure, or cut with something dangerous. Are any of the autopsy results in yet?
donkykemore said,
December 12, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Is it not more the case that you are afraid to say what should be said.
This woman , unfortunate though her death was , participated in crime. By so doing she entered a world where others , many others from Fox rock to Columbia have died. Others contracted in the drug for a living, some supported their political idealism through its sale ; Ms French took coke for the singular pursuit of hedonism. Coke has no other use though some dentists will use it for local anaesthetic purposes.
The affliction is something one who is now lauded for her intelligence brought upon herself.
Her death if it were tto contribute anything to the scourge of cocaine should have been broadcast in its final throes on u tube and her organs donated to science.
The wailing over this woman while many more have died from uter poverty on our streets is a vulgar indictment on our press .
You should say it as it is.
Ms French RIP , was never slow to promote herself appropos abortion or whatever else entered however fleetingly her head.
Be honest about her real legacy.
laura said,
December 12, 2007 at 3:04 pm
You are right…I guess we should write them all off like this…people who take drugs…what is their legacy really…it is all their fault and because we are not like them we are smarter and more the chosen ones.
Maybe we should leave the judges at home when we look at eachother and think about it more objectively on what the solutions to the problems really are…without judging those unfortunate to get swept up in them.
~RIP Katy – her blantant honesty alone makes her lovely
Ray said,
December 12, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I hope donkykemore never breaks the speed limit or jaywalked, because then he would be entering in a world where drunken lunatics drive down the wrong side of the motorway and men with no time for society’s rules leave a trail of heartbreak behind them.
And we wouldn’t want to have to watch him die, would we boys and girls?
The Crewser said,
December 12, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Little do you know Ray but we know that you are an apologist for drug use the quality of which will always be uncertain.
Justin said,
December 12, 2007 at 4:14 pm
who are you calling “we”, Crewser?
The Crewser said,
December 12, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Make your own mind up on that Justin
Sarah said,
December 12, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Donkeymore is over the top and unnecessarily cruel but if he turned it down several notches he would be closer to the mark. The eulogising is a bit hard to take when her family and so-called friends have yet to acknowledge how she did die. Laura’s “RIP Katy – her blatant honesty alone makes her lovely” is patent bullshit since Katy had in fact blatantly lied about her habits.
Rob Hickey said,
December 12, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Sarah – where did you hear that the Gov were represented at all funerals? It seemed as though French got special treatment – why, I don’t know. I wish all the best to her family and I am not putting her down at all, I just don’t understand why the Aide de Camp was there at all.
Sarah said,
December 12, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I rang the GIS and asked
Now, there was a slight difference. The official government representation at the Doyle funeral was Martin Cullen – who as the local bigwig might have been there anyway. At the Grey funeral it was Brendan Kenneally – so might have been there also too. Sending the Aide de Camp is different since that, (i stand to be corrected) is the representative of the Taoiseach. I know where you’re coming from, but I suppose she was “famous” and the others weren’t (and I can assure you I would have been extremely pissed off it no one was sent to the Waterford funerals – they are entitled to the same honours French was). The GIS guy told me they had several complaints that the Aide was sent. I suppose she did charity work etc and could be justified on those grounds.
The Crewser said,
December 12, 2007 at 5:15 pm
There is hardly ever a funeral in this country where TD’s from all parties are not present. If there were Government TD’s at any funeral, technically the Government were represented. The girl had a very high profile and was very likeable, the fact that she suffered the affliction of addiction does not mean she has to be denigrated. The fact that she was one of Ireland’s top models meant that she would have a large funeral and that Ireland’s most prominent people would be there or be represented.
V said,
December 12, 2007 at 6:36 pm
donkykemore: who’s your Dentist?! Can I get busted for going to the Dentist?, cos I need an extraction at the moment, damn!
How do you know she was an addict Crewser? Were you her dealer?
The Crewser said,
December 12, 2007 at 7:34 pm
She was an addict, unfortunately for her.
V said,
December 12, 2007 at 8:15 pm
What source is this from? Did you know her personally? If not, then don’t talk rubbish. If you dropped dead in the morning I wouldn’t go round blogs saying that you were a practicing Nazi when in actual fact you are just right of center.
The Crewser said,
December 12, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Don’t be so clever V. You could say anything you wanted about me if I was dead. In the fullness of time all will become clear in relation to this girl’s tragic demise.
donkykemore said,
December 13, 2007 at 12:08 am
the good that men do is buried with their bones ; the evil lasts an eternity .I make no judgment of whether French was good or evil ,I did not know her, her god or her ethical values.But if she took cocaine she was a criminal .Of that there is no doubt if as has been alleged and not denied by anyone that she did take coke .
Harsh and unforgiving though it may be , in so far as she willfully discarded the mores of an already crumbling society , and deviated from the legislation of the land she died as a consequence of her personal crime and has contributed to the trade by which others will die .
Why do we seem to need a Paris Hilton / Princess Diana figure to grieve over.?
Because we did not grieve nearly so painfully and so piously over r the 2 lads who succumbed to the same fate . Why not.?
Because they were not self promoting exhibitionist sybarites ?
-over the top and unnecessarily cruel ??
For someone who boasted earning €400 / hr she was scarcely disadvantaged , she had the privalage and oppertunity of 3rd level education ; but choose to use her undoubted beauty for the singular purpose of self gratification ; the stunt with John O Shea was as laughable as it was contemptible – the woman was riddled with inconsistencies – she changed her mind to pander to the media ; she opined on vibrators , abortion , she divulged the contents of her text messages for the same reason – she was a shameless self promoter .
The reason I would argue for the promotion of the sequence of her death is not from a sense of vengeance or being ‘over the top and unnecessarily cruel ‘but to deter others from distinguishing the glamor from the lie and to let them decide in a rational manner if to dice with death is really that good a game.
Ray said,
December 13, 2007 at 8:46 am
“an apologist for drug use”?
If you mean that I don’t believe the penalty for drug use should be death – let alone having your death televised – then yeah, I’m an apologist.
If you mean that I think legalising (but controlling) drugs is a good idea – or at least better than endless waffle about studying this serious problem very seriously, and maybe organising a couple of serious junkets abroad to take a serious look at some serious alternatives – then yeah, I’m an apologist.
Or maybe you simply mean that I know something about what I’m talking about, and don’t randomly shite on repeating what I read in the papers or what I heard from a FF spokesman.
Ray said,
December 13, 2007 at 8:49 am
Shorter donkykemore – Katy French didn’t join a convent, therefore she was a witch, and should have been burned at a stake pour encourager les autres.
Ray said,
December 13, 2007 at 8:50 am
Oops, forgot some random misspellings and misquotations.
Ray said,
December 13, 2007 at 2:28 pm
“I make no judgment of whether French was good or evil”
but you then decide she was a “self promoting exhibitionist sybarite”, self-gratifying, pulled a laughable and contemptible stunt, “was riddled with inconsistencies” and “a shameless self promoter”. Not to mention the fact that she had opinions on abortion and vibrators (saints preserve us!)
Graham said,
December 14, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Sarah, I think the best comment award should go jointly to crewser and donkykmore. Keep the award small and light though, lest the two should fall from on high, where they seem to perch all the time.
Perhaps I’m way off the mark, but I have a feeling neither has had any experience with drugs, apart from in a theoretical sense, i.e. from books and newspapers. Obviously, myself and a few others would be apologists for the drug addicts (seeing someone else take drugs without reporting it to the garda drug squad probably qualifies one as an addict too), so any argument I have is worthless on this matter. I’ll just go and sit in shame for supporting crime and death all across the world. I guess driving a car or having a diamond ring also means you are part of the crime world in some sense too. Thankfully I have neither, so I can just reflect on the drugs issue.
*sits in corner and reflects*
donkykemore said,
December 15, 2007 at 12:39 am
Graham . why you should make such a sweeping presumption I coudl’nt venture to say . Perhaps you are clairvoyant . You should without hesitation surrender your services to the National Crime Squad .
Your undoubted infalability would be of immense importance – or should I say HUGE – and to quote another you would the state some service.
I should think your gift would be of incalculable value to politicians , clergymen . hairdressers, advertisers , spindoctors. You might even get on Q& E
The possibilities and endless.. endless.
Let joy be unconfined ; Let this Messiah come and be amongst us . Halleluia
The Crewser said,
December 15, 2007 at 8:59 am
As I always suspected Graham you are gifted in one particular way, takling through your arse. I have referred previously to my own battle with addiction which lasted more than 15 years. The fact that cocaine was not involved is neither here nor there. I had to go through the same process as most other addicts and I was fortunate to come out at the other end. I rubbed shoulders with people who had multiple addictions, many of whom are sadly no longer with us. So let me just say that if you and V and Ray and all the others who think that hard drug taking is cool have gone through what I went through for half my working life then you are reasonably qualified to encourage people to play russian roulette with their lives by consuming substances, the quality of which is totally unchecked and uncontrolled. That is the Ian O’Doherty view as expressed on the Late Late Show recently. I know that people have personal responsibility for what they do with their lives but the recent results of hard drug abuse speak for themselves. So might I suggest a “talking through the arse award” also Graham and you are difinitely in the running for that one.
V said,
December 15, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Not because it is ‘cool’ Crewser but because it is ‘enjoyable’.
I don’t get you. I take drugs, therefore YOU are an addict, and it’s MY fault that YOU can’t control yourself. That’s a great basis on which to attempt to teach values of individual self control.
donkykemore said,
December 15, 2007 at 3:55 pm
V.
The step from leisure use of drugs to habituation is an illusion.
Believe those who have made the rueful crossover.
If you need to seek the high of coke your soul is already hollow . You are duping yourself into a state of exaltation which is temporary but is already starting to erode the very brain .
From a chemically induced euphoria do coma and death is really only a matter of the degree to which you chose to use the drug – not in an habitual way; you can arrive at end game after one throw of the dice.
But it is your choice . The choice of suicide over living is one whetre the individual is the ultimate arbiter.
The Crewser said,
December 15, 2007 at 5:34 pm
V’s mentality is a good example of why there is the problem in society (not just Irish society) with hard drugs, not just cocaine and heroin. And donkeymore your summation of the situation is spot on.
V said,
December 15, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Incredible donkeynore, I wish to thank you on behalf of everyone for sharing that with us.
:-0
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GxUxKZdHk
donkykemore said,
December 16, 2007 at 12:04 am
V
If you were just a little less cavalier about your frivolous and flippant attitude to what has become a national pandemic . and showed just the smallest degree of maturity your thanks would be quite unnecessary.
I sense however that you will discover the unenchanted path your self. You sound convinced and more worryingly – determined .
Perhaps like the Clairol girl you consider yourself ” worth IT’, and who could possibly argue with any vehemence against such a formidable position of self confidence.
Bon Voyage
Graham said,
December 16, 2007 at 12:57 pm
The irony. Thanks crewser for the nomination, but I’m afraid you’ll win that award too and not just for this thread, bu countless others on this blog alone. You’re right in that addiction is addiction, regardless of the substance being abused, but you seem to place hard drugs on some special platform, separate from alocohol and tobacco. Therein lies the problem. The nationwide problem with drug abuse in this country is an alcohol problem, not cocaine. Yes, there is widespread use of cocaine in Ireland and Heroin still remains a significant problem in some areas, but alcohol abuse is and always was Ireland’s undoing.
I have not and would not encourage anyone to dabble in drugs, be it alcohol/tobacco or anything else.
As for donkykemore, well I think he’s just a little too fond of pontificating. Convoluted and flowery writing take away from the points you’re making, which is sad really. ‘starting to erode the very brain’….??
V said,
December 16, 2007 at 2:00 pm
‘Crack’ and ’19th Century poetry ‘can do this to a mind. You begin to use more and more adjectives every day until you are finally lying face down in a pool of your own symbolism.
The Crewser said,
December 16, 2007 at 10:11 pm
I would like to ask all those who are happy about the drug taking culture would they have the same attitude to drink driving, speeding on the roads etc. Laws are put on the Statute books for a reason, a well thought out reason. There is great apathy about in respect of illicit drugs, if one is to judge by the contributions to this website. People must make up their minds but the future does not look very bright if the opinions here are a microcosm of society generally.
Niall said,
December 16, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Crewser, you’ll notice that the difference between the examples you mentioned and drug-taking is that if someone makes a choice to use drugs, it only affects them. If they speed, they put others lives at risk. If they drink then drive, they put peoples lives at risk.
Now you could argue that because people buy drugs from criminals they are financing people who cause much suffering, and you’d be right. But the same can be said of anybody who puts a few gallons of petrol in a car where the oil has been sourced from somewhere like Saudi Arabia. The victims of that suffering just tend to live a little further away, so people find it a little easier to ignore.
Europe needs to get real and face up to the fact that when there is a demand for a commodity, if there are no ethically satisfactory avenues of supply, people turn toward the tyrants and thugs. If we really want to stop drug-related crime, we need to take the market away from the suppliers. Ireland, and almost every other Western country, has tried for years to stamp out illegal drug shipments. It hasn’t worked. In fact, it seems to have made the situation worse. So it’s about time that we gave the alternative a go.
And the alternative does not involve cavity searches for nightclub goers, raids on house parties, the random drug testing of primary school kids and TDs or locking up people who admit to having used drugs.
The Crewser said,
December 17, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Now Niall if you believe what you have just stated in your most recent contribution then you are completely off the wall. Are you telling me that the consumption of cocaine or heroin is so innocuous that it has no affect on the users ability to drive. Here is yet another example of apologies being made for the use of hard drugs. Even if the drugs in question were quality controlled by the most highly trained chemists they would still pose a huge risk not only to their users but also to society generally. The fact is that the drugs which circulate in this country are of totally uncertain quality but yet there is extrordinary apathy in respect of the use of these drugs.This is the most frightening scenario of all in my view.
Niall said,
December 17, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Crewser, there’s a difference between taking drugs and driving and taking drugs, just as there’s a difference between drinking and drink driving. If you can’t see that then please fuck off and die.
Too much?
The Crewser said,
December 17, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Really, that must explain why approximately 20% of all those involved in serious road accidents were found to have taken drugs.If anyone decides to fuck off and die they should try taking cocaine. Sooner or later they will come across “a bad batch”. Tippex is much more easily found and it acts faster. Just depends on how long you want to stay around.
Cath said,
December 18, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Are you stupid Crewser?
>Really, that must explain why approximately 20% of all those involved in serious road accidents were found to have taken drugs
This must fall into the “driving and taking drugs” category so.
Paul Newton said,
December 18, 2007 at 1:22 pm
I just wanted to be the 100th comment, this may be the 1st time Sarah got 99 comments and i didn’t want her to end up like David Beckham without passing the milestone.
While I’m bothering I just wanted to say I dislike the scent of fundamentalism that is reeking from both camps here, Niall and Crewser have sullied the intellectual credability of the blog by namecalling and unreferenced (approximately 20%) baloney. And it’s Christmas after all.
The Crewser said,
December 18, 2007 at 2:04 pm
So Cath joins the debate at the 11th hour with her little gem of wisdom. I think you’ll find Cath that my reference to drugs and driving was in response to Niall’s earlier gem which implied that those taking drugs would not in any way contribute to road accidents. The facts speak for themselves Cath but perhaps you are another of those apolgists who would say that the recent deaths from cocaine use were merely due to the fact that some “bad cocaine” was circulating in society. Can anyone be that stupid. As for Paul well at least he can say he was the 100th contributor to this thread. Apart from that he decided to sit on the fence and didn’t contribute anything meaningful to the debate.
Paul Newton said,
December 18, 2007 at 3:09 pm
If you have a little scroll back CrewserI think you’ll find I advocated education and media responsibility as starting points , it’s not as exciting as your “off with their goolies” philosophy and not as cool as Niall’s “chill out man” stance, but there you are, and being accused as a fence sitter amid the knee jerk over reactors does not really bother me.
I speak for a little perspective on these issues, I believe there are far more pressing issues in Ireland today than either Katy or the cocaine “pandemic”
I think we’ve abandoned our values of community, freedom, idealism, caring for our sick and less well off, supporting each other, and fostering our next generations. Things that had a little substance.
We’ve replaced it with style, spin, celebrity, instant gratification, crassness, vulgarity, pride and avarice.
This has produced an emptiness which people fill with whatever Johnny Druggie has on him of a friday evening.
The cocaine is not a cause, it’s a symptom.
Now Happy feckin Christmas.
Niall said,
December 18, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Chill out man? Drugs don’t contribute to road accidents?
Fuck it.
donkykemore said,
December 19, 2007 at 1:12 am
Fighting for peace , they say , is like fucking for chastity; and all of this about drug taking and accidents and death become absurd in both the piety and in avante garde camps . It has become a silly game of trumping one another.
The choice to take your own life is your alone; ants , rats (lemmings)and men are the only species who participate in willful suicide .The person /animal is the arbiter of his destiny.
This does translate in to any any presumption that a drug taker can take another on his determined course should he chose to take his life or take it knowingly to the brink as does the drunken or drugged motorist.
The idea that a drug taker presumes on the services of a society ( A& E units – ICU beds )having possibly endangered another person’s life in the process preceding his going on a life support system is a selfishness beyond expression. And that is exactly what Ms French RIP did and it is also why I feel her autopsy should be studied rather than her memory eulogized.
The Crewser said,
December 19, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Not one of the pro illicit drugs lobby who have contributed to this thread have come up with a single reason why taking cocaine is beneficial for human beings. I presume, because they are such lovers of freedom that they would find nothing wrong with children taking drugs also and glue sniffing is presumably acceptable as well.