06.12.07
Galway water
I see my remarks on TodayFM about the people of Galway drinking water containing shit are accurate
From today’s IT
“Human waste main cause of Galway contamination
Liam Reid, Environment Correspondent
The contamination of drinking water with human waste is the primary cause of Galway’s cryptosporidium crisis, according to the latest laboratory results.
Tests on 123 samples from people who fell ill during the outbreak show they were infected with a cryptosporidium strain normally found in human waste.”
I wonder how the 123 people voted?
Justin Mason said,
June 12, 2007 at 12:15 pm
That certainly is the question alright. gotta say, I’ve lost all respect for the residents of Galway since the election — if there was one place that should have kicked FF out, but failed to do so, that’s it.
Slack Bladder said,
June 12, 2007 at 12:51 pm
This has to be the perfect metaphor for the election. You want to drink shit in your water? Then vote for Fianna Fail.
Sarah said,
June 12, 2007 at 1:17 pm
hee hee, that’s what I said on TodayFm on the Last Word. I said they had voted to drink shit. It upset a lot of people. Feck them.
Sean said,
June 12, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Oh were FG going to do sort out the water also?
Gordon Davies said,
June 12, 2007 at 10:35 pm
With FG the excrement would be from cows and pigs! But with the Greens in power the water will be as pure as Bertie’s ethics!
Gordon
John said,
June 13, 2007 at 9:06 am
Justin & Sarah, I live in Galway and if there was a single party to blame, then, to be sure, they would have suffered. To a certain extent, they did – election candidates who were also city councillors did not get elected (O’Brolchain for the Greens, Crowe for FF, Connolly for Labour and Healy-Eames for FG).
The reality is that the city councillors, as a whole, did very little about this problem, whereas the government had actually allocated a budget to improve the Galway water supply. And it’s not a good sign for any city council when they start to make Dick Roche look good.
The other problem has been that, even when the councillors did finally try to do something, they were not able to force the full-time city council staff to implement any emergency measures [in fact, at the beginning of the crisis, the councillors couldn't even force the city council staff to attend an emergency meeting because the official protocols for calling a meeting had not been observed]. As I wrote elsewhere, if there was cholera in the water, it would have been fixed in a week, and probably by central government. But cryptospiridium was as fatal as cholera for anyone with a weakened immune system, and it is a miracle that no-one has died as a result [the water was contaminated for weeks before the public were warned not to drink it].
At the next council elections, we’ll have a chance to exact our revenge. But how – if every party is equally culpable, who do you vote for ?
There is one lesson, though. Local government doesn’t mean better government – it just means more government.
BR,
John
sarah said,
June 13, 2007 at 11:08 am
Allocating the money is pointless if you don’t give permission for the council to appoint project engineers etc. Announcing that the money is available is a very long way from facilitating the build. Eamon O’Cuiv himself said the longest delay would be at departmental level not council level.
Billy Waters said,
June 13, 2007 at 10:28 pm
People in Ireland have been drinking shit in their water for 40 years. I know Sarah you have no time for this but fluoridated water is shit in the water. Shit from chemical factories.
Harold Hodge lied to the Supreme Court in 1963. He knew since 1944 that it was dangerous.
Irelands flourine came from Albatross Fertilisers in New Ross Co. Wexford. It was given free of charge to the council to get rid of it because it was waste.
Sodium Fluoride is not regualted by the IMB. The IMB have passed the buck to the Department of Health.
The dosage of flouride is random due to the varying amounts of water drunk by people. It is akin to believing in the tooth fairy that it is anything other than chemical waste.
Flouride has been found to build up in the brain. This alone would in a responsible country cause the IMB or equivalent to step in and research it. In Ireland we don’t do this we prefer to test it live on the people. It is not acceptable in this day and age to administer drugs without proper informed consent to 5 million people. The last people to get away with that in Europe were the Nazis.
Justin Mason said,
June 13, 2007 at 10:42 pm
oh god here we go again
John said,
June 13, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Sarah, the issue of staff was a red herring. The council claimed they didn’t have enough staf to process the application for funding – what actually happened was that, since no priority was given to the existing council staff by the elected councillors to handle the application, nothing was done. No project, at even the most preliminery level, was initiated so the shortage/hiring freeze on project staff wasn’t an issue.[O'Brolchain as a good as admitted this in a RTE Drivetime interview]
Of course, the council had probably blown their budget & staff allocations finishing off Eyre Square …..there must have been something in the water when they signed THAT project off…
omaniblog said,
June 14, 2007 at 8:04 am
Sarah,
Thank you for posting on this. John I want to thank you for all the information contained in your comments. To me you sound balanced and informed: I’m inclined to trust what you say.
What puzzles me is ‘what happened to good old fashioned protest on the streets led by a champion of the cause?’ In other words, what wrong with the people of Galway that they couldn’t throw up one leader prepared to make clean water a major issue? Did they not realise that unclean water is the worst recommendation for a place that relies on visitors? What happened to the self-respect? Have they become so lazy that they go round ignoring the evidence that something is wrong, in order to carry on as if all was right? Are they Lemmings?
Perhaps I am mis-informed? Perhaps there was a lot of local protest that wasn’t reported in national media? Where were the whistle-blowers?
I returned to Ireland at the end of 2005, after over 30 years in UK. I picked up from people who fish that the water was poluted. Even I picked that up.
It’s the placidity that shocks me. No spunk in the people eh.
‘Who can we vote for?’ I’m afraid that’s not strong enough a reaction to make things happen.
The fact that there’s been a Green mayor made me feel worse about the situation: I think he should have gone to jail over the issue and made such a fuss that this would be a warning to other places. As it is, this has been so quiet a catastrophe…
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Galway’s festivals in 2008?
Thanks again.
Billy Waters said,
June 14, 2007 at 9:33 am
Here we go again because we introduced poison into our water supply in the belief that it has some benefit to our teeth. This is total and utter nonsense and is banned in most EU countries. I will keep saying it because ti still happens.
Apologies for bringing up a point on water pollution you obviously want buried.
Flourine has an effect on your brain. It accumulates in your brain and in rats it has been found to make them docile and lethargic.
Flourine has an effect on your bones. It can cripple you in the same way as arthritis. This is called osteofluorosis causing skeletal changes, usually consisting of osteomalacia and osteosclerosis, caused by the chronic intake of excessive quantities of fluorides.
To be honest I do not care if you don’t want to hear it. You can drink it neat for all I care but from a personal point of view and the point of view of being able to choose what medication or poison goes into my body I would like the ability to choose. Any other way is fascism.
CG said,
June 14, 2007 at 10:18 am
Er if I remember rightly Sarah had a post all about fluoride in the water very recently so I hardly think she wants debate on the matter ‘buried’.
John said,
June 14, 2007 at 10:24 am
Omniblog – you have a point there – the apathy is astonishing. People here in Galway will protest at a lot of things – war in the Middle East, fox hunting, even the prospect of another concert in Eyre Square by the Sawdoctors (ok, that was just me), but there was almost no public protest over the contaminated water. There was one, which was very poorly attended.
And I will have to admit, through gritted, flouride-stained teeth, that Sarah is right, indirectly. The cause of the water pollution looks to be from human sewage. But not necessarily from urban supplies. I wrote about this a while ago on my own site:- The county of Galway has one of the highest approval rates of one-off housing applications in the country. Many of those houses will have its own sewage (septic) tank, which needs to be operated properly and emptied regularly. To ensure a properly-working septic tank, natural bacteria in the tank must exist to break down the waste. That means NOT pouring bleach down the toilet, which kills the bacteria. I wonder how many home owners realise that ? And where exactly do all the contents of the septic tanks go. Someone turns up with a tanker, pumps out the contents and brings it away to be disposed of. I wonder where ? How often are checks made that all the sewage handled by private contractors is disposed of, properly ?
I don’t know how many inspections have taken place of private septic tanks in Galway after they were built, but I’d be willing to bet it’s close to zero.
The worst nightmare of Fianna Fail backbench TDs is that the Greens in government would crack down on one-off housing. But the Greens don’t have to – all they have to do is get a couple of hundred housing inspectors appointed. Part of the newly agreed programme for government is to pay for the upgrade of old septic tanks across the country – inspectors would help drive that process.
The policy of damn-near unrestricted one-off housing is indeed something that poeple voted for in Galway – indirectly, since it is a key policy of both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, who hold most of the seats in the two Galway constituencies. So maybe we should thank the Dubs who returned the Green TDs [unlike Galway] that will ensure the implementation of a cleaner water scheme for us.
I’m off to the shops now to lug home a churn of clean water …I may be some time…
Sarah said,
June 14, 2007 at 10:52 am
Hmm good point John. But let me paint another scenario-
Let’s say the staff and councillors of Galway are utterly useless and incompetent. They are funded and every penny spent has to be approved by the Department. At what point does the Department intervene and say – you have not done this job and people’s lives will be at risk- ARE at risk – we are sending down a consultant to get this job started.
Also, you have to remember that scientists did approach the Department about Lough Corrib and were dismissed.
Finally you have to remember that this is not about Galway. The EU has sent complaint after complaint to the Irish government about poor water quality all over Ireland and they have done nothing.
If the councils aren’t up to it the Department who awards the money should take responsibility. I do not accept that they can write checks and claim they have nothing to do with the problem.
omaniblog said,
June 14, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Sarah,
I think you are reasonably critical of government: this happened on their watch, they are, by definition, responsible. The state of the water in Galway, and other places, has an influence on the image of the whole country. It is the government’s job to protect the image of Ireland, isn’t it.
However, you sound to me as if you are so wedded to attacking the government that you pay scant attention to a more profound malaise, public apathy. We get the quality of government we deserve, someone said. If Galway people can be so blind and lacking in self-interest, what does it matter what sort of government they get?
There is something wrong here. I feel I’m missing part of the jigsaw. I’ve never generalised so much about a whole city of people. John, help. Anyone, help. Sarah, we might as well make this about Galway: it’s a perfect case study. After you complain, and your complaint is ignored, you don’t go back to bed and do nothing else. You ratchet up the ante, don’t you?
John said,
June 14, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Sarah – fair point. There is a bit of a grey area when it comes to responsibility. As I understand it, the Department of the Environment makes an annual funding allocation to regional authorities (e.g. Galway City Council) and the city (via the elected councillors) are free to top it up via local funding (commercial rates), and they also decide how the money is spent [this is where the finger-pointing over the water crisis is going on between the Dept. and the Council].
The City Manager ultimately has executive control of spending (and this week, there were calls for the Galway Manager to resign this week because the council have missed their deadline to get a clean water supply online for tomorrow). The City Manager is appointed by the Public Appointments Service, so yes, central government could fire the City Manager (assuming it was entirely his fault) – it would be a bold move by any Environment Minister. Until this afternoon, the relevant Minister was Dick Roche, a man not known for boldness. But now, it’s Eamonn Ryan, so who knows what could happen? The Greens have committed to raising the standard of group water schemes which is the other huge water scandal.
Great discussion.
Sarah said,
June 14, 2007 at 7:24 pm
hmm I made some calls today about this. I spoke to one councillorswho says that two things happened-
1. When the initial 21.5m was allocated in 2001 GCC was in the middle of the Mutton Island and Knockagara (? correct me on this) projects and didn’t have the staff to prepare the plans so that they could draw down the money for Terryland. They asked for extra staff and were refused by the DoE.
2. In 2004/5 when they finished the other projects they approached the DoE to start the Terryland project and the DoE asked them to hold off as they were in the middle of revising their public procurement procedures. The GCC agreed and from then until March 2007 sent half hearted messages every few months enquiring as to when they could start the project.
Now it seems to me that you have two things going on
1. Unmotivated civil servants who just have no incentive to act
2. They are unmotivated because politically there was no pressure.
I think my initial point about political responsibility is still valid. The councillors have very little power. The Minister has far more power. He says money is not a problem but it sounds to me like the staffing issue is a real one and it sounds to me like lethargic civil servants at DoE don’t like giving councils money. Certainly that city manager won’t be penalised in any way whatsoever.There is NO accountability demanded of public servants and why should there when the politicians won’t take responsibility.
This is why I think people should not have voted FF.
1.They are the experts at deflecting blame so it becomes a culture – NEVER resign
2.They have been in power for 18 of the last 20 years. They introduced benchmarking. They are in charge. Whatever systemic flaws exist in local government are ultimately down to the government and they are the government. Whatever malaise existed in the DoE that saw such reluctance to let the project move ahead is their responsibility.
If there is NO accountability demanded of local government or central government that what’s the bloody point.
And if the people themselves don’t demand accountability that why should FF offer it?
So let’s just carry on – civil servants not doing their job, Minister failing to demand that people do their jobs and the people failing to demand that Ministers do their job.
The Crewser said,
June 14, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Sarah you are so wide of the mark on this one but if thats what you want to believe thats what you will believe. The Civil Service and Public service have become so ruthlessly efficient in recent years they are now indistinguishable from the private sector. But there will always be a need for a little tweaking. Having a Green Mayor might have something to do with Galways water problem. But at least the locals realised what was required when the election came.
John said,
June 14, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Crewser – I have family working in the Civil Service and even they won’t pretend it is anything close to ruthlessly efficient. Right now, it’s summer, so if you ring a department public phone number for expert advice, there’s a good chance you’ll get a temp covering for the actual expert. Of course, you won’t know that so if, for example, you’re asking for advice on your tax form, God knows what information you’ll get.
The Civil Service introduced a Performance Evaluation system (similar to what many multi-national companies use to evaluate employee performance), and in some departments, a directive was issued so that everyone got the same grade. Not like the private sector at all.
As for the Green Mayor in Galway, the water was well banjaxed before he came to power. He didn’t get elected simpy because he objected to the proposed ring road around Galway – not a popular stance.
CG said,
June 14, 2007 at 10:56 pm
John you’re dead on the money about the civil service. I worked as one of those summer temps a couple of years ago and the inefficiency is farcical. You wouldn’t believe the stuff that senior managers – in their 50s! – get away with. Not knowing how to switch a computer on (despite 3 or 4 expensive training courses). NOT everyone is like that of course and most of the people I worked with were capable and competent and lovely, but it’s amazing what a cheeky, lazy, few can get away with.
The Crewser said,
June 15, 2007 at 2:52 pm
It’s very easy to act on hearsay evidence and that is precisely what you guys are doing but I am right in there every day in different Departments and the changes are amazing, Checks and balances at every corner, exactly as it should be. Its a different world to twenty or thirty years ago believe me. Sure there a few old fogies but they are disappearing fast.
johnny uggol said,
July 10, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Do the people realise the terrorist agenda operating within the political parties.Life means nothing to these people.Do the people realise the terrorist agenda within the public services.Ah the poor people of Galway were nearly poisoned just like they were poisoning innocent children in the chief state solicitors office until recently.Word from the grapevine is look and look again.Things are never as they seem.This is the truth