05.23.07
Private vs Public Hospitals
Alright so that wasn’t the last word – this is.
I think Pat Rabbitte was right when he said that the policy to build private hospitals on public grounds should be the deciding factor in the election because it sums everything that is wrong about FF so-called governance.
Let’s just do the history…
They gave benchmarking which included index linked, benchmarked linked pensions for civil and public servants.
They guaranteed everyone’s job from the Health Boards.
They hired in another layer of bureaucracy called the HSE.
They decentralised so they had to hire more people.
None of this was linked to productivity
So the cost of Health soared but the services didn’t improve
So they realised they couldn’t provide any extra public beds because they couldn’t persuade the bureaucrats to work.
So their mates the builders down at the tent in the Galway Races said “sure we’ll build those for you if you give us a dacent cut”
So now the new equipment and the good nurses and the fancy doctors will go into the new private hospitals.
And the old and the poor and the cystic fibrosis patients will die in the old crappy hospitals while the privately insured live it up next door in the carpeted hospital/hotel.
And they call this a government?
WHAT F*CKING GOVERNMENT?
Dan Sullivan said,
May 23, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Curious how the private contractors (it’s not like there is a public sector construction company) when building something for the public sector take much longer than when building the same thing for private customers. You can almost imagine the scene
Building contractor A – We’ve got a good start on that ould hospital but we’ve got to go off and finish another job first, minister, bit of rush job on a hotel has to be open for the tourists come the summer. We’ll be back to ya in 2/3 months, 6 ,months top.
Minister B – ah sure , no bother lads. Catch up with ye in Galway.
Mark Waters said,
May 23, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Also, the fundamental argument that building the private hospitals will free up 1000 private beds in public hospitals is flawed. Most of the private patients in public hospitals are there for acute care that is not offered by private hospitals in the first place. There’s no way that 1000 private beds can be just transferred to a new building unless all the services offered by the public hospital are set up there as well. And this is not going to happen.
They’ll be doing well to free up 300 beds. And if that’s the case all the costings (40m, 57m, 70m, whatever) aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.
This co-location lark was tried in Australia and the result was worse outcomes for public and private patients.
graham said,
May 23, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I’m sure if FF get back into power they’ll be sure to send some special advisers/HSE board?ministers to Australia to see how things worked out for them regarding co-location. Then when they see that it’s flawed, they go ahead with it anyway, because of course thats what they seem to do in every case. And sure by then the costs will have gone up by 40% anyway, but sure thats just inflation!
Donal said,
May 23, 2007 at 2:48 pm
No moratorium on blogs today no?
Totally agree with you on FF awful attitude to health care in Ireland. Micheal Martin has slipped down the voting preferences. The smoking ban is the only thing that will keep me giving him any vote.
Paul Newton said,
May 23, 2007 at 3:04 pm
it’s the economy, stupid.
I don’t disagree with your points, in fact i agree with most of them, but will it make any difference to the vote, not a jot, safety first there people, steady as she goes.
If it’s an FF/SF coalition will there be a Sinn Fein tent in Galway this year?
student said,
May 23, 2007 at 3:05 pm
As always, you have point/valid argument, but over the course of this election campaign you increasingly appear to have “lost it”.
Sarah said,
May 23, 2007 at 3:38 pm
I know. The thought of this bloody one party state perpetuating itself has put me over the edge.
student said,
May 23, 2007 at 4:13 pm
That’s democracy for ya!
In my Fantasy Ireland FF, FG and Labour would all split in two and the resulting mini-parties could link merge in various ways or remain independent. Then we would have choices. There is no reason why certain politicians should remain in FF or FG in particular.
omaniblog said,
May 23, 2007 at 5:17 pm
I think this was a fine piece of cogent political invective. It was good enough at the point where it said
“… And the old and the poor and the cystic fibrosis patients will die in the old crappy hospitals while the privately insured live it up next door in the carpeted hospital/hotel.”
After that, the author suffered a crisis of confidence in her own writing.
ps I hope you saw my positive words about your candidate Gerry Buttimer in Cork South Central.
blankpaige said,
May 23, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Co-location may not be the answer. But what is the alternative. (a) A hospital admitting both public & private patients? Then the incompetent HSE has to administer transfer of fees between two groups. And we are left with the current situation where doctors cream off the private work and don’t even do 33 public hours. (b) Then we could try completely separate public only or private only approaches. But sure everyone is against this ‘cos it is privatising health. Any way the private sector will cherry pick the best doctors, nurses and easier cases. The public hospitals would be left with chronic and terminal care. (c) That leaves the option of a mandatory national health insurance scheme for all and there being no difference between public + private patients. The problem with this is that some individuals will always want more care + attention than the general public are willing to pay for. Who is going to vote for tax increases?
No, co-location is probably not the answer but I’ve yet to hear a better alternative.
Still searching for the third way,
Paige
The Crewser said,
May 24, 2007 at 8:37 am
Some decent points have been made on this issue to be fair to all contributors but the bottom line is that there is massive wastage in the Health system we have today. It has improved considerably since the HSE replaced the Health Boards. Micheal Martin stated a major programme of reform and Mary Harney has continued that. No one can doubt the sincerity and genuineness of those two Cabinet Ministers. Remember the smoking ban how successful that was. Now Mr Martin’s initiative is being copied around the World. Instead of being followers we now have become leaders.
Long may it continue. There is one other person who deserves great acclaim for his role in bringing Ireland to where it is today, economically and that is Charlie McCreevy. He is now to to pastures new in Europe but his legacy and ideas live on and are being implemented brilliantly by Brian Cowen.
But the knockers will never have a good word to say about Charlie. All you will hear are references to Horse Racing, Galway Races or Punchestown. (Gordon Davies take note) But there are very few in Dail Eireann with the shrewd brain for tuning up an economy like Charlie. Certainly none on the opposition benches (Joan Burton springs to mind) I can never understand Pat Rabbitte put that Woman in as a spokesperson for anything but there you go.The future looks very bright for Ireland. Lets savour it today.
omaniblog said,
May 24, 2007 at 9:05 am
Was that a party political broadcast The Crewser, or did you really believe all you wrote? I ask because it felt like party-writing, the kind I use to do when I was a political propagandist.
omaniblog said,
May 24, 2007 at 9:07 am
Sarah,
I’ve just noticed that your blog controller is putting the wrong time on posts: it’s one hour out. Any chance you would correct this please. I’m afraid your blog archive might be produced in court as evidence that I was in a particular place at a certain time.
Mark Waters said,
May 24, 2007 at 9:45 am
No, co-location is probably not the answer but I’ve yet to hear a better alternative.
The better alternative is to build public hospitals. In order for co-location to be cheaper than building public hospitals it has to guarantee 1000 beds will be freed up. Any less and it is costing the taxpayer more than building public hospitals. 1000 beds will not be freed up by this scheme. At best we’re looking at 300. It’s fundamentally flawed because it does not address the reason why private patients are in public beds in the first place i.e. because they need services provided only by the public system.
Co-location is a nice buzzword and it seems logical when you just look at it from a distance. It’s when you focus on the details that you see the problems with it. It’s the same with decentralisation of public services, e-voting, competition in the electricity sector to list just a few examples. All nice ideas in theory but the implementation is disastrous.
For me the only real difference between the government and the alternative is the health issue. The government are pro-Hanly and the alternative are anti-Hanly. The Hanly proposals with their focus on centralised, specialised so-called centres of excellent at the expense of general, accessible, local hospitals are not in the best interests of the public.
The Crewser said,
May 24, 2007 at 9:53 am
No omaniblog its from the heart alright. Im not a member of FF or PD’s but I have a deep and passionate interest in politics. If people have good constructive ideas let them be put on the table or the blog or whereever.
Knocking people or Governments just for the sake of it I cannot abide. And there is plenty of that on this site.
The Crewser said,
May 24, 2007 at 10:11 am
Our health system will become like that in the US in time as Consultants and Nurses demand more and more money and control. The answer will be that everybody will have to have Insurance Cover. The less well off who can not afford such will have to have it provided by the State and rightly so. The issue of Co-Location will be largely irrelevant then. This could happen in the shorter rather than longer term.
Gordon Davies said,
May 24, 2007 at 2:43 pm
We have no private hospitals in Ireland, we do have a State subsidised for profit hospital sector.
Crewser, the whole idea of universal health insurance is that everyone has the same insurance – only low income families have all or part of their premiums paid for by the State. Medical services are funded from fees paid by patients,who all get the same treatment. It has worked well in Germany since the 19th Century.
As for Fianna Fail’s reputation for managing the economy – they have been surfing the wave provided by Ruari Quinn. They have consistently failed to use the economic riches available to the Government to improve infrastructure to the benefit of the more disadvantaged sectors of society. On the key long term economic factors… education, environmental infrastructure (waste, water and sewers), health care, housing – the basis of a modern post industrial society, FF/PD have failed because they confuse personal wealth for the few with a thriving economy. Bertie’s one major sucess has been to reinforce and reassure the new Haugheyite Ascendancy. Long term Bertie will be seen as having been as disastrous for Ireland’s future economic success as was Maggie (who used North Sea oil revenue to pay for the long term unemployed she created). I could go on…but FF won’t listen – they still suffer from the delusion that they can form a Govt with Labour.
Gordon
Paddy said,
May 25, 2007 at 8:00 am
Gutted after that exit poll. It’s cool in Ireland if the leader of the country is on the take
Padraig O'Morain said,
June 1, 2007 at 11:54 am
And I wonder how many public beds are lying idle in hospitals which could be opened quickly and without building private hospitals if the funding was provided?
Padraig O'Morain said,
June 12, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Co-located private hospitals will be very reliant on contract work from the public sector – mainly thru the National Treatment Purchase Fund – for their survival because we’re going to end up with more private hospitals than there is a demand for. What I object to is that they are getting public land and that it would make so much more sense to open up more beds in public hospitals.
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Gavin @ private health insurance said,
May 27, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I am intrigued by the US health system, I am lucky enough to be from the UK and we Have the NHS, I cant understand why the likes of a country like the US cant afford to set something like this up, or is it the case they actually want to profit from peoples ill health?