Comments on: Kids defeat opt-out from God http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/ An Irish woman's social, political and domestic commentary Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:50:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: B http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-199627 B Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:13:37 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-199627 Oh yea, by the way ask the next priest you meet where Oliver O'Grady is. I bet they won't even know who he is. Dumped in Ireland after being convicted in the States the church is happy to hide him here. Last I heard he was in Nenagh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_O'Grady All they care about is their power. They could not care in the slightest about the welfare and safety of ordinary people. Oh yea, by the way ask the next priest you meet where Oliver O’Grady is. I bet they won’t even know who he is.

Dumped in Ireland after being convicted in the States the church is happy to hide him here. Last I heard he was in Nenagh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_O‘Grady

All they care about is their power. They could not care in the slightest about the welfare and safety of ordinary people.

]]> By: B http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-199621 B Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:05:29 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-199621 Apostasy is practically impossible without the "permission" of the Vatican. I know I tried it. You are in the club and you can never leave. The only way is to get thrown out and with the Nazi pope the bar is set pretty high. The church could not care less about the rise in world population. They have no issue with having 10, 20, 30 billion people. Who cares if the earth can sustain this? Apostasy is practically impossible without the “permission” of the Vatican. I know I tried it. You are in the club and you can never leave.

The only way is to get thrown out and with the Nazi pope the bar is set pretty high.

The church could not care less about the rise in world population. They have no issue with having 10, 20, 30 billion people. Who cares if the earth can sustain this?

]]> By: Fiona http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-199113 Fiona Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:52:01 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-199113 Really enjoyed your article. I am getting so frustrated with this country. I am Irish and atheist as are all of my family, well I would say most are ex-catholics. The same for my friends ex-catholics and ex-protestants mostly non-believers in god or believers of god but not religion. Despite all the non-believers of the catholic faith I keep seeing them baptising their children. For a long time I did not understand this but I have recently learned that in order to secure a place for your child in a local school you must be catholic since nearly all schools in this country are catholic. If the school is oversubscribed it will chose catholics first and if you are not catholic you will be denied a place and forced to look for another school miles away. This is forcing many Irish people to baptise their children. Is this not somehow human rights abuse? If we, as tax payers, are funding the schools then why do we not have a choice in what school our child attends rather than the church deciding if you are suitable? Why are most state funded schools run by the catholic church who, as it turns out, have been abusing our children for years. Is it neccesary that state funded schools are run by the church and have crosses with a dead man hanging in our classrooms? Religion is a private matter and should not be part of school. I am getting worried now for when I have children in the future. I am starting to feel pressured that I must baptise them so they can attend a good local school with other children from the area and not be forced into some horrible school miles away. And in order to baptise my child would I then in tun have to be baptised? I just can't do it. I was recently at a christening and it was awful, a tiny baby being cleansed of it's sin and it's stone heart being replaced by a heart of flesh. Does anyone actually listen to what these people are saying or even more worryingly does anyone actually believe it? Has anyone ever challenged this legally? I just can't see how this blatent discrimination can be legal. What's next catholic schools who expel children who are gay,because being gay is against their religion. Or would that be considered discrimination? For those who have given in and cleansed their children's sins can you now decline communion and confirmation or must your child be forced even further into their "chosen" faith? Is there a way to un-baptise yourself when you are older and get a new certificate stating you are a non-catholic? Really enjoyed your article. I am getting so frustrated with this country. I am Irish and atheist as are all of my family, well I would say most are ex-catholics. The same for my friends ex-catholics and ex-protestants mostly non-believers in god or believers of god but not religion.

Despite all the non-believers of the catholic faith I keep seeing them baptising their children. For a long time I did not understand this but I have recently learned that in order to secure a place for your child in a local school you must be catholic since nearly all schools in this country are catholic. If the school is oversubscribed it will chose catholics first and if you are not catholic you will be denied a place and forced to look for another school miles away. This is forcing many Irish people to baptise their children. Is this not somehow human rights abuse?

If we, as tax payers, are funding the schools then why do we not have a choice in what school our child attends rather than the church deciding if you are suitable? Why are most state funded schools run by the catholic church who, as it turns out, have been abusing our children for years.

Is it neccesary that state funded schools are run by the church and have crosses with a dead man hanging in our classrooms? Religion is a private matter and should not be part of school.

I am getting worried now for when I have children in the future. I am starting to feel pressured that I must baptise them so they can attend a good local school with other children from the area and not be forced into some horrible school miles away. And in order to baptise my child would I then in tun have to be baptised? I just can’t do it. I was recently at a christening and it was awful, a tiny baby being cleansed of it’s sin and it’s stone heart being replaced by a heart of flesh. Does anyone actually listen to what these people are saying or even more worryingly does anyone actually believe it?

Has anyone ever challenged this legally? I just can’t see how this blatent discrimination can be legal. What’s next catholic schools who expel children who are gay,because being gay is against their religion. Or would that be considered discrimination?

For those who have given in and cleansed their children’s sins can you now decline communion and confirmation or must your child be forced even further into their “chosen” faith? Is there a way to un-baptise yourself when you are older and get a new certificate stating you are a non-catholic?

]]> By: Ray http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62326 Ray Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:24:10 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62326 See, you can jump up and down all you want, and say "He said 'believe'! That means he has faith! He's just as religious as I am!", but it's more irritating than convincing. You want a difference between 'scientific fundamentalism' (again, not actually convincing) and religious faith? What do they have to say about the origin of the universe? The scientific perspective (as I understand it) is that we don't know what happened at the very beginning of the universe. As we learn more, we might get closer to understanding the earliest fractions of a second, but we'll probably never know exactly what happened, or 'why'. The Christian answer is simple. How did the universe get here? God made it. How did he make it? With his Godly powers. Where did God come from? God was always there. But if a scientist uses the word 'believe' at any point in his explanation then they're both fundamentalism and science is just like religion and la la la la la .... See, you can jump up and down all you want, and say “He said ‘believe’! That means he has faith! He’s just as religious as I am!”, but it’s more irritating than convincing.

You want a difference between ‘scientific fundamentalism’ (again, not actually convincing) and religious faith? What do they have to say about the origin of the universe?
The scientific perspective (as I understand it) is that we don’t know what happened at the very beginning of the universe. As we learn more, we might get closer to understanding the earliest fractions of a second, but we’ll probably never know exactly what happened, or ‘why’.
The Christian answer is simple. How did the universe get here? God made it. How did he make it? With his Godly powers. Where did God come from? God was always there.
But if a scientist uses the word ‘believe’ at any point in his explanation then they’re both fundamentalism and science is just like religion and la la la la la ….

]]> By: Stephen Neill http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62237 Stephen Neill Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:15:27 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62237 Ray said: I think* my senses are more or less accurate, and logic works. Stephen believes in miracles and an invisible man in the sky +. Calling them both ‘belief systems' is deliberate obfuscation. * QED + Do I? Don't remember saying that? Ray - this is no longer about faith - it's about you being stuck back in the 'modern world' when we have all moved into the post-modern one! You still don't get it! There is nothing to choose between Scientific fundamentalism and the religious variety. I welcome and embrace Science but I am not so brave as to say that there is no Ultimate significance to life - I actually believe that Science points towards it. It is far more radical and to propose the opposite! Perhaps I am just not brave enough. :-) Ray said: I think* my senses are more or less accurate, and logic works. Stephen believes in miracles and an invisible man in the sky +. Calling them both ‘belief systems’ is deliberate obfuscation.

* QED

+ Do I? Don’t remember saying that?

Ray – this is no longer about faith – it’s about you being stuck back in the ‘modern world’ when we have all moved into the post-modern one! You still don’t get it! There is nothing to choose between Scientific fundamentalism and the religious variety.
I welcome and embrace Science but I am not so brave as to say that there is no Ultimate significance to life – I actually believe that Science points towards it. It is far more radical and to propose the opposite! Perhaps I am just not brave enough. :-)

]]> By: Ray http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62129 Ray Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:59:58 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62129 I think my senses are more or less accurate, and logic works. Stephen believes in miracles and an invisible man in the sky. Calling them both 'belief systems' is deliberate obfuscation. I think my senses are more or less accurate, and logic works. Stephen believes in miracles and an invisible man in the sky. Calling them both ‘belief systems’ is deliberate obfuscation.

]]> By: Gerry http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62108 Gerry Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:27:27 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62108 come one ray, you have a belief system. it is stunning arrogance on the side of the rationalists that all their conclusions are based on objective evidence and that there is no interpretation involverd. Yours might well be the most provable conclusions but you are choosing to believe in them and choosing to reject other conclusions. Therefore you have a belief system, there is a (very small) leap of faith to trust in the reported science only a tiny amount, if any, you can have directly observed or proven yourself. come one ray, you have a belief system. it is stunning arrogance on the side of the rationalists that all their conclusions are based on objective evidence and that there is no interpretation involverd. Yours might well be the most provable conclusions but you are choosing to believe in them and choosing to reject other conclusions. Therefore you have a belief system, there is a (very small) leap of faith to trust in the reported science only a tiny amount, if any, you can have directly observed or proven yourself.

]]> By: Ray http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62104 Ray Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:36:54 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62104 Stephen, just calling science 'fundamentalism' and 'faith' doesn't make it so. It's telling that you think these are such weak points in religion, and feel the need to pin the same problems on the competition. Stephen, just calling science ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘faith’ doesn’t make it so. It’s telling that you think these are such weak points in religion, and feel the need to pin the same problems on the competition.

]]> By: Stephen Neill http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62016 Stephen Neill Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:12:08 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62016 Ray said: Whose definition are you going to trust - that of a fallible human, or that of divinely-inspired saint? Saint or not still fallible human! We Prods don't go in for this infallibility lark! ;-) (cheap shot I know) Ray said: Whose definition are you going to trust – that of a fallible human, or that of divinely-inspired saint?

Saint or not still fallible human! We Prods don’t go in for this infallibility lark! ;-) (cheap shot I know)

]]> By: Stephen Neill http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-62015 Stephen Neill Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:08:57 +0000 http://www.sarahcarey.ie/2007/04/15/kids-defeat-opt-out-from-god/#comment-62015 Ray said: I don't have ‘faith' that the universe came into existence and people evolved naturally, I have conclusions drawn from evidence. Sounds like Scientific fundamentalism to me - no more appealing than the Christian variety! Incidentally I'm not denying Evolution. I don't see it as contradictary to Christian faith. And what you have articulated is a belief in the veracity of the evidence you cite - still a belief no matter how you spin it. The is no such thing as uninterpreted experience hence belief is a sine qua non. Ray said:
I don’t have ‘faith’ that the universe came into existence and people evolved naturally, I have conclusions drawn from evidence.

Sounds like Scientific fundamentalism to me – no more appealing than the Christian variety! Incidentally I’m not denying Evolution. I don’t see it as contradictary to Christian faith.
And what you have articulated is a belief in the veracity of the evidence you cite – still a belief no matter how you spin it. The is no such thing as uninterpreted experience hence belief is a sine qua non.

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