01.28.07
From stag hunt to witch hunt
There are two kinds of people I can’t bear: Concerned Parents and city slickers who move to the country and then complain about rural life. This double prejudice resonated when I heard the mothers with Dublin accents on Radio 1’s Liveline complaining about the behaviour of the Ward Union Hunt in my native Co. Meath. The subject of the Hunt, an unfortunate stag, had sought refuge in the empty playground of the national school in the quiet village. No one told the stag it was 3 o’clock and school was just about to finish.
One group of children was let out before the teachers realised what had happened. The pupils got the fright of their lives when instead of meeting their mothers, they met a sweating stag, a pack of hounds and well over 80 hunters. The school principal, Kathleen Lynch, did the sensible thing and kept all the other children inside until the Hunt had passed. In ten minutes it was all over bar the shouting, and that went on for an entire episode of Liveline into the next day.
I constructed a mental league table of sympathy towards the effected parties. In first place was the Stag. Being a country girl I know that the dogs are only “giving tongue” – they bay in unison at the deer and would never touch him. But of course the Stag doesn’t know this and hardly appreciates the experience.
Next were the children. I am all too familiar with the childhood trauma of witnessing creatures in distress. I was after all required to eat animals with whom I was on first name terms. The fate of poor Hoppy the Turkey, the one with the broken leg still hangs heavy. Turkeys are wretched animals to rear. They are filthy and a row always started when we forgot to round them up before dark. They’d roost on the sheds requiring you to fire stones in an effort to persuade them off their perches and into their huts. Maybe that’s how Hoppy came a cropper in the first place? Anyway, he was produced on a platter one Sunday and after a brief goodbye, we tucked in. The experience must have hardened my heart.
At number three in my sympathy table was Oliver Russell, the spokesperson for the Ward Union and now a victim of a different kind of Hunt – Outraged Parents who go in for the kill. He had to “Talk to Joe” for an entire Liveline programme taking abuse from the highly articulate and increasingly less likeable mothers going on about the disaster that could have befallen their children, as opposed to the minor incident that actually did occur. The odd fright will not, contrary to the view of the Concerned Parents, scar their children for life.
Russell apologised repeatedly and explained that in the 150 years of the Hunt such a thing had never happened before. The mothers painted scenes of what might have happened if all the children been out in the yard. Russell tried to persuade them that had the children been outside the Stag would never have headed for the school playground in the first place. He only went there because it was empty.
The Hunt didn’t help its own case by charging off into the village of Kildalkey without acknowledging the chaos it had caused. The Hunt Master could have dismounted and check that everyone was alright. They did visit the school the next day and is to suspend operations until an investigation into the incident is complete. A more immediate reaction might have prevented escalation to the airwaves.
The mothers were bottom of my sympathy league. They refused to be placated as they waved their health and safety banners. The biggest danger to children leaving schools, as any road engineer will tell you, is the other mothers’ illegally and dangerously parked cars. Yet they never have the slightest hesitation in accusing everyone else of endangering the lives of their offspring. When something like this happens you can decide to assure your children that the Stag will be fine (which he was) or claim that he was clearly going to die (which he wasn’t). If the children were upset on behalf of the Stag, their parents’ hysterical reaction was hardly going to help matters.
On other pages the debate rages about the challenges posed by immigration and multiculturalism. Yet here in the heart of County Meath we had our own little clash of cultures. Once sparsely populated areas are occupied by townies who have never witnessed a hunt and are scared rather than thrilled by the prospect of seeing dozens of mounted horses galloping down a road.
While I don’t come from a family of hunters, we view the Hunt as a source of excitement. True, at the sound of dogs, the first thing you do is get out the way. Then we shout for the children to come to witness the spectacle : which they love. I suppose townies might panic at the sight of so many animals, but all the mothers had to do was sit in the cars and watch. You can screech that this is an attack upon ones civil liberties, but if you live in the country you are at some stage likely to be obliged to make way for animals. Joe Duffy cannot protect you from all eventualities.
Sadly, despite my bias against slickers who have decentralised to the country, I can’t with all honesty paint Tuesday’s events as a neat collision between them and ordinary decent farmers indulging in their misunderstood sport.
The Hunt and the environment in which they operate have changed. First there are far more hunters. There were as many as 100 out on Tuesday and even half that number is hard to manage. The Hunts, while revelling in their popularity will have to cap the numbers if they are to keep order. The routes are harder to organise now too. When there were big farmers who owned thousands of acres, tearing across the fields was a straightforward matter. Hunters can’t now expect to roam wherever the Stag leads. They will have to keep manners on their members – some of whom are fond of using wire cutters to make a “hunt gap” and failing to repair the damage afterwards.
We would spit on West Brit aristocrats for this kind of behaviour fifty years ago. Why take it from nouveau riche property millionaires who choose, like their Patron Saint CJ Haughey, to adopt the traditions of the former colonists? I am happy to defend the Hunt but they might do well to clean up their act if they want to escape that most merciless of all predators : hysterical mothers.
fatmammycat said,
January 28, 2007 at 10:06 pm
‘Being a country girl I know that the dogs are only “giving tongue” – they bay in unison at the deer and would never touch him. But of course the Stag doesn’t know this and hardly appreciates the experience.’
I’m a country girl too and while I know bugger all about stag hunting I can tell you the hounds from the Wicklow Hunt would tear any animal they caught limb from limb.
I believe the stag in question dropped dead from shock, injury and blood loss not very long after this incident. Poor thing, its a barbaric way to die, terrified exhausted and attacked by dogs. Much kinder just to shoot the poor creature.
simon said,
January 28, 2007 at 10:18 pm
I am a country guy and from my experience the hunt is rarly involving the normal farming community. and i really can’t stand them
John of Dublin said,
January 28, 2007 at 10:35 pm
My Dad was from Ratoath in Meath and loved the hunts – took my Mum to see them in their dating phase. Great excitement I’m told (eh, the hunt I mean – not their dating…but there again… ok I’ll shut up!)
I think there is more danger from bloody mammy-wagon high SUVs than hunts. Can never see other traffic or small children coming when those suckers are stopped eveywhere.
Your article has nice balance to it.
P O'Neill said,
January 28, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Sarah, on a logistical note — as the ST changed its website to make the regional editions, and therefore your column, harder if not impossible to find?
Sarah said,
January 29, 2007 at 7:38 am
Apparently the ST is going to relaunch its website soon and isn’t making the regional editions available online in the meantime (using their people up on the redesign perhaps?) I am told this will happen in a couple of weeks.
Fatmammycat, that’s not true about the stag. The mothers kept saying the stag “was about to drop dead” which is how you might have heard that. But they got him in his trailor and brought him home and there wasn’t a mark on him. Now I’ll be quite honest, if I was back in benign dictator mode, I would ban stag hunting. Foxes are well able for hunts but the stag is being set up. But complaining mothers annoy me more than hunts.
Primal Sneeze said,
January 29, 2007 at 8:18 am
Lads, lads, lads. You’re picking away at the bones of this one and missing the meat.
Sarah’s article is not a treatise about the rights or wrongs of the hunt. Nor is it about the dangers of illegally parked Mammy-Masseys. Although she deals with both in the interest of balance.
It is about townies moving to the country and being totally ignorant of, and unwilling to accept, country ways. If a herd of docile old cows had broken out of a nearby field and wandered into or even near to the school, the reaction would have been the same – Dublin accented screams, blowing of Mammy-Massey horns and running to and fro … and consequently very frightened, confused animals who could then cause damage trying to flee. Joe would be polluting the airwaves with calls for dairy herds to be banned within 20km of schools.
Sarah, I could post enough examples from my own area alone of townies’ ignorance of country ways to swamp your server.
ben said,
January 29, 2007 at 10:59 am
I have a beagle today because I knew of the breed’s gregarious nature and exuberance from a hunt near Ballymore Eustace in Wicklow.
On a related note: we each of us get the dog we deserve. Beagles are bloody-minded little fuckers.
Conor O'Neill said,
January 29, 2007 at 11:14 am
I grew up in Ratoath (until I was 6) and all my mother’s side still live there. Things like the Ward Hunt are a strong part of the history and tradition of the area whether you agree with them or not. That part of Meath in particular has seen almost uncontrolled growth and with it a terrible loss of community.
When I was 18 I went to Dublin for college and stayed for 17 years. Three years ago, we moved to just outside Bandon. I thought it was important to know and understand the area and some of the traditions. Whether it is simple things like going to the Agricultural Show or just buying the local newspapers/magazines, we have to do more than just “live there”. I’m not the best at it but we do try.
We’re the other type of annoying ex-townies – the ones who tell everyone we know in Dublin that they are idiots for staying there and how awesome our quality of life is compared to Kimmage and how three cars at a junction is a traffic jam.
And yes, those goddammed SUVs at the school are the only thing that get my hackles up (oh and tractors on National routes).
fatmammycat said,
January 29, 2007 at 11:43 am
Cheers Sarah, I read it on Indymedia that the animal had died. But I’m never fully sure if that site is trustworthy or not. But if you know it was reboxed and released injury free that puts paid to that.
brian thomson said,
January 29, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Me, I’m just trying to get my head around the “West Brit” idea – I might be one, despite the non-posh. These days, of course, it’s more like West Slovakia here…
John of Dublin said,
January 29, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Actually your piece makes me feel even more like a townie on re-reading my own article yesterday on rabbits/mice!
http://earthanduniverse.blogspot.com/2007/01/mouse-huntlessons-for-all.html
fmk said,
January 29, 2007 at 10:10 pm
bing born and bred in the inner-city, i have no qualification to speak on country life, but the part that made me snort most on joe duffy was the bint who called in complaining about deer leaping in front of her car when she was driving on the back roads of meath. the nerve of it!
now even though i’m an inner-city ruffian, i know those roads well from my cycling days. wildlife crossing such roads is the sort of thing you expect to happen (not often, but it does). it’s the countryside for gawd’s sake. i’ve been confronted by deer on many roads in ireland and the uk while cycling. it always comes as a surprise (then once the surprise goes, there’s an instant of pleasure) but i don’t think i’ve ever had the sort of reaction joe duffy’s contributor had. she really shouldn’t be living that far out if she can’t cope with this sort of thing.
laura said,
January 29, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Connor, you must never venture north of Bandon……. I’ve been caught in longer traffic jams trying to get through Inishannon than I ever have to deal with in Dublin and that is no word of a lie.
I’ll take my corner of Dublin where I live and work any day of the week! I’ll bet my work commute is shorter than yours!
laura said,
January 29, 2007 at 11:42 pm
oh, I’ve a question, what are you all doing listening to Joe “I’m a gombeen” Duffy? Joe would kill more of your brain cells than a litre of vodka.
Conor O'Neill said,
January 30, 2007 at 9:10 am
Laura, I’ll take your bet and raise you the four metres from my kitchen to my office
I may extend that to five metres if I move to the shed for noise reasons. D’internet, you have to love it.
Innishannon is a pain but it’s 10 minutes tops for me to get through it unless it’s a Bank Holiday Weekend.
It’s a matter of pride for me that the closest I come to Joe Duffy is Gift Grub.
graham said,
January 30, 2007 at 11:33 am
You can always tell someone is a culchie when they use the word ‘townie’, but while everyone complains about people moving into rural areas, what about the massive number of culchies who move into the cities and haven’t got a clue how to behave normally. Being able to walk down a busy grafton street on a saturday without bumbing into every single person you get close to is something that seems to be too difficult for the culchies.
Siobhan Tracey said,
January 30, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Hi Sarah,
As you know, I’m an occasional lurker but haven’t been moved to comment before now. . .
“There are two kinds of people I can’t bear: Concerned Parents and city slickers who move to the country and then complain about rural life. . .”
Presumably this is an example of lazy journalism rather than real values – as it’s unlikely you prefer unconcerned or negligent parents?
But what moves me to write is wondering when a “concerned parent” which presumably includes men, morphs into the somewhat misogynistic “hysterical mothers” which definitely excludes men. And why are the mothers predatory anyway? Who are they out to kill? I am, perhaps, in the interest of making my point being too literal here, but I have no agenda other than as a woman and mother who doesn’t fall into any of the categories you describe (so I’m not being defensive) but who dislikes this sort of lazy anti-mother, anti-woman vibe in the media.
You are better than this.
fatmammycat said,
January 30, 2007 at 12:42 pm
The Irish Council of Bloodsports http://www.banbloodsports.com/ has a report on the incident as well as link to some of the callers to Joe Duffy’s show-which I didn’t hear myself- and it would appear Sarah, that a good number of the people who called in were local people disgusted with the hunt on the day in question, including the local Bus driver fro the schools.
Justin said,
January 30, 2007 at 1:06 pm
oh good point Graham!
The missus nearly crashed into some country folk at the weekend who clearly were having great difficulty (a) using their indicators and (b) getting their heads around a 2-lane roundabout — they just swerved into her lane, requiring some emergency braking. This is a common occurrence at the weekend with country-reg’d cars…
fatmammycat said,
January 30, 2007 at 2:28 pm
“Being able to walk down a busy grafton street on a saturday without bumbing into every single person you get close to is something that seems to be too difficult for the culchies.”
Right, cause gangs of giggling Abercrombie and Fich wearing teenagers from Templeogue are so nimble on Grafton street.
Mo dhuine said,
January 30, 2007 at 2:45 pm
It wasn’t even a real hunt anyway, as its not a hunt to release a tame animal then chase it with dogs.
The parents were right to complain, fair play to them, (this is coming from a chluiche with no love for Dubs by the way) what the hell are these posh country toffs doing chasing a stag onto school grounds anyway? Tally ho.. old boy!!
I suppose you think its ok for people to go out shooting game close to residential houses as well?
Leon said,
January 30, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I thought we burned these people out at independence. No wonder you are a blueshirt, Brutal’s cringing to Charles Windsor leaps to mind.
How did you assimilate to Dublin life when you lived here? You didn’t, you blew in and you blew out. It is time to ban blood sports and all forms of west brittery like blue shitism
Sarah said,
January 30, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Hi Siobhan
You had to hear the show in question I suppose. As you know I am a parent myself and am of course concerned about my children, but the Concerned Parent is the one who goes to protest meetings and rings up radio shows and who in IMHO expects institutions and authorities to assume the balance of responsiblity in protecting their children – when that’s their job. So in this case they are not against hunting for political or moral reasons, (positions for which I have the greatest respect) they are against hunting because they don’t want their child to accidentally witness the hunt because it will give them a fright. I prefer parents who explain the world to their children rather than demand that the world change to accommodate them (reasonable exceptions of course).
The Parent thing turned into the Mother thing because it was exclusively mothers who were calling into Duffy and what REALLY pissed me off was that the Hunt spokesperson was incredibly civil, apologised repeatedly, offered numerous solutions to prevent a repeat and they just wouldn’t accept it. They weren’t rational. He was. So they were hysterical.
laura said,
January 30, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Conor, on the working from home, mine would be a similar distance!
But my commute is ten minutes in a car. Innishannon drives me nuts however. Especially as I remember it twenty years ago with no traffic and no one living their either. The explosion in population in all those towns is amazing.
On the subject of would be culchies (ex townies), at least those people who moved to housing estates built in fields tacked onto villages have managed to get their children into the local schools. Some people are never happy. A few years ago, everyone who had moved to the new west Dublin belt (i.e. Kildare, West Meath, e.t.c.) was complaining about lack of school places.
The parents are missing the whole point of the stag. They are a rare
sighting, you could go hiking for weeks looking for one and never get so close (although you might hear one).
How would do these parents react if they encounter a herd of cows on a country road whilst out cycling with the little darlings? Or am I delluding myself thinking that those who moved into poorly planned housing estates in what used to be a small village would ever be out for a cycle. They are far too busy driving up to Dublin in the 4WD for that nonsense.
fatmammycat said,
January 30, 2007 at 7:20 pm
I don’t think it was the stag so much they were worried about as the pack of hounds and 100 plus riders behind it.
Sarah said,
January 30, 2007 at 7:44 pm
actually on the townie thing..here’s a little aside. I had used the word “people” a lot but had a little talk with the editor. He rightly observed that my liberal use of people was a bit vague and I needed to use different labels to accurately describe the target of my disaffection. We settled on the use of “townie”. It’s not a word to which I object, although I remember thinking..I don’t really use this word myself much. But I couldn’t put my finger on what word I would use. Just today I remembered. It’s “blow-in” of course.
On another note, the people down our road who were settled here by the Land Commission in the 1940’s from Louisburgh..we still often call them the Westerners
Assimilation takes some time….
john fitzgerald said,
January 31, 2007 at 12:38 am
Whatever about one’s view of parents, town v country issues, and Joe Duffy, carted stag hunting is a vile practise in which a harmless animal is set up to be baited and terrorised…not as pest control or any kind of animal control seevice, but purely for entertainment.
This nonsense about “tradition” is just a smoke screen. It was “traditional” once to bait bears and bulls…to throw virgins into volcanoes and to lock up single mothers in our very own religious concentration camps.
Anyone can go horse riding, but these guys get their kicks from seeing the stag being hounded to exhaustion and injury. They smear the blood from its wounds on their upper crust faces, howling with glee, lapping up the cruelty and loving every minute of it.
The purpose of carted stag hunting is not to keep down deer numbers or to kill the animals…just to make them SUFFER. Their pain gives perverted pleasure to the hunters.
Some extremely powerful people are involved in the WU, which is why it hasn’t been banned yet.
The Minister Dick Roche can stop the cruelty by withdrawing the hunt’s license to harass Irish stags.
John Fitzgerald
Phone: (056) 7725543
Gerry said,
January 31, 2007 at 2:18 pm
There is surely nothing more boring or misguided in the world than the anti-hunt lobby. I’m a Dub, never been near a hunt in my life but why people get worked up about the life or death of a stag or a fox is beyond my understanding. and why urban people feel moved to comment on something that has nothing to do with them escapes me as well.
The school incident is different but it never takes long before some arrested development Bambi lover starts going on about blood smeared toffs. If there are 1000 things to worry about in the world then stag and fox hunting come in at about 999. Get your priorities straight. And thank for leaving the number John; if I am one short for a a confederacy of dunces I’ll give you a bell.
fatmammycat said,
January 31, 2007 at 6:12 pm
There’s nothing boring about not wanting to see animals tortured or hounded for the sake of someone’s pleasure. Just because there are other ills in the world does not mean we have to over look one right under our noses.
You don’t understand it, Gerry, then fine. But it is neither misguided or dull to care.
There is nothing wrong-indeed it can be much better- with riding after a drag.
There is no reason in this day and age to track chase and maul a defenseless animal with a pack of hounds, and I speak as someone who went hunting many a time in my youth. Right up until I the day a vixen dug out of the den by terriers and decapitated with a spade, while her cubs where shrieking with terror. Naturally they were stamped on and tossed into the ditch. Oh yes, very bloody noble.
I never ‘howled with glee’ or lapped up cruelty, but being from farming stock most of us rode and it was a social event. Certainly I went for the exhilarating ride. But that day sickened me, I reined off, rode home and never hunted again.
It shouldn’t matter if you are from the city or from the country to have an opinion on an outdated and frankly sadistic ’sport’.
Sarah said,
January 31, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Ouch. Nasty. Funny thing is though that I heard an interview with John Humphrys of the BBC recently – presenter of the Today programme. He said that categorically for a positive fact etc etc they always got a bigger reaction to stories about cruelty to animals than they did about cruelty to children. People do have funny priorities.
I believe a big campaign is starting up in Kildalkey now to have Stag Hunting banned. Petitions and lobbying the TDs etc. Meanwhile people are committing suicide because they can’t get to see psychiatrists. No petitions about that. Now there’s something I don’t understand. Gerry has a point.
laura said,
January 31, 2007 at 9:27 pm
It always intrigues me how the part of the anti-hunt lobby who are suburbanites (I realise there are anti-hunting people living in the country too), never get as worked up about innocent cats and dogs being tortured by the local gangs of teenagers in their own local areas. Or neglected animals living next door to them. How many of us know that our neighbours neglect and are cruel in their neglect to their animals, and yet, never do anything about it. The stag that was chased into a suburban area and wound up in a school is a lot more entertaining and a more fashionable rallying call than the poor kittens found tied in a bag in a river or the dog starving and covered in mange. (sp?). There are bigger animal cruelty issues to solve than can be solved by simply targeting those engaged in hunting.
fatmammycat said,
January 31, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Nobody can change everything at once. People will naturally gravitate towards whatever issue plucks at their heart strings. All of my cats (3) are rescue animals and were in terrible condition when I got them. The little tabby one had to have surgery to remove an infected eye and spent two weeks on a drip, all becasue some asshole couldn’t be bothered bringing him to a vet when he showed the first sign of cat flu.
But that doesn’t preclude me from having a concern about bloodsports. Have a look at the link I provided above and see if the sight of grown men wrangling a blooded, distressed and exhausted deer into a trailer so that it can go through this another day’s hunting doesn’t make you shake your head in disappointment at what passes for ‘entertainment’ to some.
Yes there are bigger issues- there are always bigger issues- but some issues can be handled now.
an seanchai said,
January 31, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Farmers used to hunt a generation ago, but even the “thousand acre” farmers are thin on the ground on hunt days these days. The Dulchies are a mixed bunch. Some days the doubledecker bus driver will help you to drive sheep across the road. Other days a gouger in an a blue Arnotts GAA shirt will try to mow down all 200 sheep for blocking “his” road.
http://bloganseanchai.blogspot.com/2007/01/irish-farmers-association-rounds-on.html
Conor O'Neill said,
January 31, 2007 at 11:01 pm
I find hunting distasteful but I’m of the “where will it end?” brigade. I’ve seen horses die at Fairyhouse and heard the announcements of others being put down after races. So horse racing could also be considered cruel. Point-to-point suffers far more injuries – again, is that animal cruelty and is it next on the list once hunting is “dealt” with?
Gerry said,
February 1, 2007 at 12:48 pm
well fatmammycat you have made your choice not to participate. why feel moved to ban others, your neighbours and family, from doing something they have squared with their conscience? How a fox or stag dies is of so little importance in the scale of things, that actively pursuing an anti-hunting agenda is, to my mind, a morally indefensible position.
fatmammycat said,
February 1, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Gerry, as you say, it is of so little importance to you, but to others it is of the utmost importance. I should also point out that having an interest in seeing blood sports banned does not mean I have no other humanistic concerns either. Everyone has the right to pick and choose their battles. If you find it stupid then go right on doing whatever it is that you find better occupies your time and energy, and I will do the same.
Lorenzo said,
February 1, 2007 at 3:53 pm
‘Townies’? TOWNIES? Oh for _____ sake!
Are they ‘townies’ when they pay huge money to buy houses that allow the farmers to sell the land at exorbitant prices?
Are they ‘townies’ when they move in and breath life back into some moribund country village?
Are they ‘townies’ when the taxes they pay on their jobs in the city massively subsidise the rural / agricultural economy?
It is not unreasonable to object to chasing a wild animal into a school yard. It is unreasonable to object to such concerns because the person is a ‘townie’.
GUBU » Hysterical mothers and too posh to push said,
February 2, 2007 at 9:06 pm
[...] have been thinking more about Siobhan’s reprimand the other day and the too posh to push issue and it seems to me that they [...]
john fitzgerald said,
February 4, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Gerry, being concerned about deliberate cruelty to an animal doesn’t make me a dunce. Most reasonable people would be opposed to such cruelty. Even if you couldn’t care less about the sickening cruelty that is meted out every day to animals that have no way of defending themselves, you might reflect on the proven link between the torturing of animals for fun and more serious behaviour, like child abuse and murder. You’d be surprised at how many murderers and perverts started their careers with a spot of animal cruelty. The killers of Jamie Bulger, for instance. They were killing cats and pulling the heads off pigeons as very young children. Do a little research, Gerry, and try to recall the last time you suffered pain, I mean AGONISING pain. That’s what your hunting pals do for kicks. Would you like to have your molar teeth extracted without painkiller? Even if it amused lots of “sportspeople” who enjoy watching a fellow creature in pain? Would you describe the efforts of someone attempting to halt such a cruel action “boring”?
Take off your dunce’s hat, Gerry, and remove the rose -tinted spectacles through which you view the Happy Hunting Grounds. You might have a different tune if two rottweulers were ripping your intestines out. It’s never so amusing or entertaining when it’s happening to yourself, is it?
Have a nice day.
John Fitzgerald
Pat said,
March 29, 2007 at 5:31 pm
John,
your argument, is that people who hunt foxes or stag are very likely to then kill people and abuse children. People who hunt in Ireland are a cross section of society; farmers, plasterers, vets, builders etc. They are ordinary decent people who deserve better than to be labelled as being likely murderers and child abusers. They support and enjoy a traditional sport and way of life that you don’t agree with. That could never warrant your attempts to demonise them as potential child abusers.
It also appears to me that you wish to put forward the perception that people who support hunting are all people who have blood smeared “upper crust faces”. Your attempts to make the hunting debate a black and white one by turning it into a form of class-war are unhelpful, misleading and have no basis in fact. This class-war diatribe was one of the main reasons that hunting was banned in the UK. It will not work in Ireland because we as a nation have closer ties to the rural community than in the UK. I have lived and worked in Dublin for the last 10 years but I still know that, throughout the country, cows have to be walked down the road to the milking parlour twice a day and that hunting in is a tradition supported by people from all walks of life not just hooray henrys as you would like us to believe.
Thankfully most people have some connection with the countryside and will not be fooled by your bullshit.
If you disagree with hunting, that is your own choice. If you want to impose your views on others, that is your choice too and I have no problem with that. If you attempt to have a ban imposed on hunting, that is once more your choice and I have no problem with it; some people choose to hunt and some people choose to oppose hunting.
You have absolutely no right to label the people who enjoy hunting as being:
a) likely murderers and child abusers, and
b) all toffs and hooray henrys.
It is insulting and in no way accurate. I know that there are arguments to be made on the anti-hunting side of any debate but on the basis of your rantings above, you are clearly not the person who should be putting them forward.
Gerry has said that there are far more pressing concerns for people than whether we should ban hunting. I agree with him. When hunting can be debated in the UK house of commons for over 400 hours and the bombing of women and children in Iraq for a mere 18 hours, you have to say that there is a serious lack of focus on what is really important.
The hunting debate is one that has many grey areas, it is not black and white. There are arguments that it is cruel and there are arguments that it is natural and not cruel.
There is one thing for sure though, “smart” bombs tearing children to shreds in the name of western democracy is plain wrong and deserves far more of our attention. Children homeless on the streets in Ireland deserves far more of our attention. The traffiking of girls from Eastern Europe to work as sex slaves in Ireland deserves more of our attention. More people dying from suicide in this country than are killed on the roads deserves more of our attention. I agree with Gerry that there are a thousand things more important that we should be worried about and debating as a nation. If John can’t see that then I agree with Gerry once more, he is a dunce.
Liam Nolan said,
May 14, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Just stumbled over this blog on hunting the carted deer. Regrettably, your piece is somewhat incomplete – as was the Hunt spokesman’s defence at the time – but on the whole, yours was a better-balanced opinion than most.
For information on wild deer (not the carted variety) see http://www.deeralliance.ie
Cheers.
john fitzgerald said,
July 20, 2007 at 12:42 am
You’re missing the point, hunting fan…the fact that there are greater issues in the world that require attention does not detract in the slightest degree from the extreme and indefensible cruelty of stag hunting.
Look at it another way..if someone kicked your pet dog to death on your doorstep, would you say: Ah sure, there are worse things happening in the Third World…or down at the local hospital?
If someone tortured your cat or threw it in a Halloween bonfire, as “sporting” people HAVE done to many cats, would you laugh it off, saying:”why worry about a cat when Bin Laden is still in his cave planning another 911″?
Deal with the issue…The politics of distraction and “what-about-ery” have nothing to do with addressing the issue up for debate. Each issue must be considered and debated on its owns merits.
It’s easy to point the finger elsewhere and waffle on about unrelated issues that have no bearing on the issue being addressed.
Is stag hunting cruel and unacceptable or is it not? That is the essential question to be answered.
The vast majority of Irish people, according to professional opinion polls, say yes, and want it banned…as dog fighting and cock fighting and badger baiting, other delightful so-called “fieldsports” were banned.
Sincerely,
John Fitzgerald
Irish council against blood sports said,
August 24, 2007 at 2:19 pm
We wish to respond to the “From stag hunt to witch hunt” article in the
Sunday Independent.
You stated that “Being a country girl I know that the dogs were only
giving tongue…and would never touch [the deer]“. May we invite you to
view our Ward Union video presentation at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4V9l4ChELo which includes a scene
showing dogs biting the hind quarters of a deer (e.g. around the 3:53
and 4:04 marks). In fact, the dogs are so keen to get the deer that some
of the hunters are seen mercilessly kicking one of dogs in the head and
whipping others to try and drive them away.
In addition to being bitten, the deer have to endure a gruelling cross
country chase during which they suffer cuts, bruises, distress and
exhaustion. There have also been instances of the deer being killed
during the hunt, e.g being choked to death while being recaptured by
hunters.
Before happily defending the Ward Union, we ask you to take a few
minutes to watch our video. Most people are entirely disgusted when they
realise what really happens during this hunt.
Those who wish to join our campaign against carted deer hunting can find
more details at http://www.banbloodsports.com