23 thoughts on “Middle East at War

  1. Frank Bouchier-Hayes

    Hi Sarah,

    Interestingly, the Civil War in Ireland broke out as a result of the kidnapping of a soldier. In our case, however, he was a high ranking general. The Israeli reaction seems to be ridiculously over the top as usual, and one must feel for the ordinary Palestinians who are made to suffer as a result. I have to admit that my sympathies have long lay with the Palestinians over the Israelis as the latter were imposed in 1948 on the territory of the former. It’s such a pity that extremist elements always seem to take control in the Middle Eastern territories. Where have all the moderate leaders gone?

  2. Billy Waters

    The Israeli ambassador to Ireland needs to be sent home. They are so spineless they won’t hang out their flag at their embassy in Dublin.

    We need to show them the door.

    We are not an anti-semitic country and they will whinge this point at us if we did. We are just against aggression against cilvilans like theirs and they need to be sent a message from us that it is not acceptable to stay in our country representing the actions that they are pursuing.

    It won’t happen because Intel (Berties’ savours) have a huge plant in Israel. I am amazed how these people can still walk without a spine.

  3. simon

    Sarah I wrote a post recently about nothing getting drawn into arguements with people who come out with riduclulesly one sided idiotic statements. And I am not going to break that.

  4. Colman

    Sarah, while I’m not exactly a supporter of Israeli policy, that does seem as if it could do with a little more nuance.

  5. EWI

    Sarah I wrote a post recently about nothing getting drawn into arguements with people who come out with riduclulesly one sided idiotic statements. And I am not going to break that.

    Except by brealking it posting here. apparently. Oh, and where were you and your principles when the inflammatory Silly Notes still allowed comments?

  6. Billy Waters

    Dear Simon

    In English.

    Idiotic one sided. Not getting drawn into.

    Learn to spell please. Making a random statement with crappy spelling just makes you look thick and I am sure you are not.

    Your “post” made no sense apart from pointing out that you can’t use spell check.

  7. Sarah Post author

    In defence of Simon, I think he confessed before to being dyslexic…In defence of the substance of my post, such as it was…my arguments are simply the well worn pro-Palestinian arguments. My bottom line? If I was a mother living in a Palestinian refugee camp watching her children try to survive in the most apppalling conditions while the Israelis use every means, both petty and lethal to destroy me, and I have no escape, no way out, and thanks to US pro-Israeli dominated foreign policy, there is no relief in sight, I’d probably kill myself and my children. Albeit, not with a bomb attached to me, but still.

  8. Sarah Post author

    actually Simon’s post (http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/07/israel-gaza-leb-etc.html) isn’t bad and makes a good point about how Israeli policy is just radicalising terrorism..which is true. But my sympathies lie unswervingly with the Palestinians. Take that stupid wall: if it was just about security, then build it on Israeli land. When you build it in what is internationally recognised as Palestine and cut farmers off from their land, then that’s just a land grab, so you know, what do you expect? That they’ll just roll over? No, they’ll fire whatever they have at you, stones, rockets or themselves…Alex Reid said, wherever you have terrorism you can be pretty sure that there is also a denial of human rights. This is more true of Palestine than anywhere else in the world.

  9. simon

    Sorry didn’t spell check above

    h, and where were you and your principles when the inflammatory Silly Notes still allowed comments?
    oh I was there many a time for starters.
    http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/02/drive-by-arguement-with_14.html
    Which you commented on in agreement
    http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/04/guantnamo.html
    http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/05/snobbery-is-rife-in-ireland.html
    But the reason Israel built the wall is to keep terrorists out of Israel. I am presuming if the wall is back a bit that it limits to range of missiles from Palestine into Israel. Israel Palestine is the classical catch 22. Israel attack Palestine’s radicalizing people, they in turn attack Israel radicalizing Israelis and the circle goes on. Violence begets violence. neither is wrong yet neither is right.
    Each side puts its children’s lives before the others children. And can you really blame them.
    So who is to blame Israel have offered many concessions including recognizing the Gaza border and something like 90% of the west bank. while maybe not enough it is a definite start point to talk about yet Hamas have offered none they don’t even recognize their right to exist.

  10. Pat Moore

    Sometimes I wonder how the people charged with leading the world into the future ever manage to have enough cop to get elected of is it just the voters..ie..us…are so stupid. It would appear on this conflict there is no side of the angels. Israel have grabbed land they were not given and which the UN has ordered them to give back with no effect. At the same time I cannot imagine what it is like to walk your own streets not knowing if someone is going to blow themselves up beside you or your family. Yet the belief among the leadsership of Israel seems to be to do onto others what they do to you so they kill innocent civilians including little children to get their own back. If ever the phrase “a curse on all your houses” was more apt I can’t remember it.

  11. Billy Waters

    The Israeli amassador should be sent home. Nobody will censure them for their crimes and we should stand up and be first.

    Surely all this fighting because some dude went up a mountain, carved a few rocks with a few lets be nice rules on them and declared to his mates that this country would be a great place for a gaff is not worth it.

    Religion is just legalised madness and a handy excuse to go and kill people you don’t like.

    The Israelis are playing up the “God’s Chosen People” thing to all and sundry. We know you were massacred and we are truly sorry but were were the Israelis when Rwanda was being ethnically clensed? Modern Israel is a nasty littke US puppet state whose victim mentality has turned it into a bully.

    Jesus was a Palestinian. Where would he be now if he were alive. Dead or in jail.

  12. simon

    Jesus was a Palestinian.
    Was he not also a jew and a decendant of the first king of Israel David?

  13. Pete

    Either way, he sure wasn’t blond-haored and blue-eyed, as usually portrayed in Ireland :-)

  14. Gus O'Mac

    When Israel pulled out of Lebanon the Lebanese government guaranteed Israeli security. For reasons including but not limited to; a lack of will on the part of the Lebanese government that guarantee has not been honoured.

    The Palestinians are levantine Arabs, there are three other levantine Arab states they are not a culturally unique people they are a subset (Palestinian) of a subset (levantine) of the Arab nation. The Palestinian issue would be minor at this stage if Arabs were capable of administering their affairs decently. How is it that these issues were comprehensively settled in Europe 60 years ago but the Arabs can’t get on with their lives. why is Israeli ‘brutality’ (far from it by Arab standards) roundly condemned while the actions of the Syrians and Egyptians go unobserved?

    Clearly Israel’s aggression is mispaced; they would have more impact on the Hizbollah by bombing Damascus.

    Gus

  15. Daniel K.

    I’m kind of disappointed in your post, Sarah, not the gist of it (i get the same feeling every few week) but rather the tone.

    I keep saying it but it bears repeating that the current Israeli nation has the psychology of a rape victim (or victim of an incredibly vicious physical assualt with sadism attached), part of the problem is that the US have supported them in moving on masse into an area where no one likes them. So instead of doing something to overcome the trauma they have instead gone further into it and allowed it to disort them. Part of the sad part of the problem is that at least they have a democratic model to work from unlike their neighbours.

  16. EWI

    The Palestinians are levantine Arabs, there are three other levantine Arab states they are not a culturally unique people they are a subset (Palestinian) of a subset (levantine) of the Arab nation. The Palestinian issue would be minor at this stage if Arabs were capable of administering their affairs decently.

    The Palestinian “issue” wouldn’t exist if Israel hadn’t been carved out of their homes and neighbourhoods, a policy which still seems to have life today. So yes, it is ‘relevant’.

    I have a theory on US support for Israel. I don’t think they ever quite got that Manifest Destiny nonsense out of their heads, and now they’ve expanded their horizons to the next logical step, the Holy Lands (via their client-state, Israel).

  17. Sarah Post author

    hi Daniel

    Your analysis may well be correct; but what? is that just tough shit for the Palestinians? They have zero chance of building a normal society as long as Israel continues to make Palestine completely unworkable.
    And the US supports Israel purely because of the strength of the pro-Israeli lobby. Do you think Hilary Clinton, a New York senator is going to condemn Israel for shooting kids? Don’t do a John Waters and pile myth onto simple pragmatism..The suicide bombing is appalling, but bombing the “infrastructure” i.e. bridges carrying civilians fleeing the country is both immoral and ultimately ineffective. They are just creating more enemies, not destroying existing ones.

  18. simon

    I don’t think they ever quite got that Manifest Destiny nonsense out of their heads, and now they’ve expanded their horizons to the next logical step, the Holy Lands (via their client-state, Israel).
    in fairness ewi do you believe what you type. also i noted you asked me a question about “silly notes” yet you never acknowledged my answer?

    Sarah how much money does Israel spend on its military much of which could be spent on other more worthy causes if Israel didn’t have to spend so much to defend its self. Yes Israel over reacts, commits war crimes and is not porportionate. But they want to be left alone. But their neighbours wouldn’t leave them alone. What would you have them do. All board ships and move to cyprus. Would you move all unionist to Britain. The thing with the middle east is there is no easy answer

  19. Sarah Post author

    “Yes Israel over reacts, commits war crimes and is not porportionate. ” Eh, YEAH! When the IRA bombed Omagh, did the British bomb Michael McEvitts’s house in Blackrock, Dundalk risking killing his wife and children? Just for one second assume that the Palestinians are not dirt poor semitic towel heads, but imagine them as white christian suburbanites.

    I would have Israel
    a) destroy their nuclear bombs
    b) release the women and children prisoners – and anyone else imprisoned without a fair trial
    c) retreat to the 1967 borders
    d) Help a Palestinian government to operate effectively rather than bombing the shit out of their offices
    e) obey international law – so, if they want to target a known terrorist then get some help in arresting him, don’t bomb the shit out of him and his family and the 20 other civillians unfortunate enough to be in the same house.

    Obviously in return the Palestinian government would have to control the terrorists – but remember they can’t do that if their police stations and ministries are bombed.

    Remember, acting properly would HELP Israel. Their security operations HAVEN’T WORKED. And they never will. You will NEVER defeat a people willing to die to achieve basic human rights – which the Palestinians do not have. At the very least, I don’t understand why they don’t see this.

    There was no easy answer in the Northern Ireland – in the end the Brits gave up their claim on land until the democrat wish of the people dictates otherwise and they fund an executive (which admitedly the northerners are making a complete balls of). But everyone came to the table and hammered out an agreement. There are fudges and grey areas and no surrenders.

    And whatever about West Bank and Gaza, how on earth can you defend what’s happening in Lebanon. Now “pick-up trucks” are the infrastructure of terrorism? Give me a break. They are just wholly and completely wrong. No I wouldn’t move all unionists to Britain but their refusal to give civil rights to the catholic nationalists was wrong and all it did was create support for terrorists and got a lot of people killed in the process. It was their own illegal and unjust policies which created their enemies. Same in the Middle East. It doesn’t mean the terrorists are justified – but it does ensure that each generation will continue to send forth suicide bombers. So its stupid as well as wrong.

  20. simon

    When the IRA bombed Omagh, did the British bomb Michael McEvitts’s house in Blackrock, Dundalk risking killing his wife and children?
    Do the Israelis have the option to go in and arrest Hizbollah. Lebannon were told to do so by an UN resoultion and didn’t do anything. That was 6 years ago. 6 years to arrest terrorists 6 years. and yet Hizbollah is in government and nobody is calling from them to be dropped from the cabinet.

    release the women and children prisoners – and anyone else imprisoned without a fair trial
    All Israeli prisons have access to judical review contact with familes and acces to the red cross. Something Hizbollah prisioners do not. True they should be released if not guilty but if you are comparing like with like. Israel is more humane.

    obey international law See first point

    Palestinian government would have to control the terrorists
    Am they already do. Its called Hamas.

    But everyone came to the table and hammered out an agreement. In the 2002 Israel offered something like all the gaza strip and 98% of the west bank arafat walked away without negociating. Surely 98% is something to work on in a negociation.

    refusal to give civil rights to the catholic nationalists was wrong
    as is refusing to give Jews the basic civil right to live in peace is wrong.

    It was their own illegal and unjust policies which created their enemies.
    What did israel do to be invade in 67.?

    Anything I didn’t reply to I agree with you on. I hate getting into this defending israel crap. I said I wouldn’t http://dossing.blogspot.com/2006/07/im-sorry-for-my-hackery.html and I get dragged back in. Now I have to go to some right wing american blog and defend Lebannon

  21. Sarah Post author

    You know, I have really been aware of that feeling where actually I am just pro-Palestinian and I could spend hours looking for facts to back up my gut feeling, but I couldn’t be bothered. Israel is fully entitled to exist but they have treated the Palestinians like shit and are simply facing the consequences.
    Arrafat was a waste of space tho…

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